Previous Podcast
Next Podcast

What’s holding us back?

Join us as we discuss the things that are holding us back in our businesses and let’s see if we can come up with a plan together and break some records!

Dent Technology INC

Blending Hammer Excellence

Smooth PDR Tabs are better


Shane Jacks Special Wood Carving Photos:


Keith: I’m Keith Cosentino, he’s Shane Jacks, and this is the PDR College podcast, your number one source for all of the expert level information for the paintless dent removal industry. We are here with you every week, to share the knowledge, skills, and techniques that we use to make our companies a success, and we want you to put them to use in yours, so that you can make giant piles of cash. Why do you need so dang much cash, Shane?

Shane: I need a bunch of cash – Normally, Keith, we say something, I say something really goofy and stupid at this point, but this is kinda serious, honestly, and it has to do with money. We’re – I’ve partnered up with somebody to open the All Hail Gary Busey Rehabilitation Clinic for hail chasers. And, Gary was an obvious choice, an obvious target for me to partner up with in this, because he was an addict himself, and he has some money to help me, of course. He looks like a hail chaser, kind of. And, most of all, he was easily confused by the all hail prefix. When I say all hail, it’s H, A, I, L, and he thought it was All Hail Gary Busey, and it’s all hail tags, of course. So I sort of tricked him a little.

So, that’s the reason I went after him. He also has huge teeth, and I always look for that in a partner, when I partner up with someone. They either have to have huge teeth or a fanny pack, so that’s– We’re opening that Gary Busey rehab clinic for hail chasers.

Keith: Gary Busey, All Hail.

Shane: But, these guys need this, man. You’re laughing, but these guys are desperate, they need our help/

Keith: Can you get out of, can you finish your stay there by, like, I don’t know, mid-January, so you can get back to work?

Shane: Well –

Keith: Come in in November.

Shane: Well, you actually are – the clinic starts in late October, and it’s tough, man, because most hail chasers, they’re out of money by January, so we’ve gotta hit them early, a little bit earlier than that. So, we hit them late October, get them in, and get them weaned off the stuff, man. This is needed in our industry.

Keith: We’re making fun of substance abuse, now.

Shane: Maybe we’ve sunk to a new low.

Keith: Mitch Hedberg said, “Alcoholism is a disease, but it’s the only disease you can get yelled at for having. Damn it, Otto, you got lupus! Damn it, Otto, you’re an alcoholic.” All right, after that intro, how could you not roll right into a fantastic show? We’ve got a treatment center – where do we get this stuff. All right, what are we – Shane, what are we talking about?

Shane: I don’t know, man. We had to come up with something new, and I just – Gary Busey popped into my head, so.

Keith: After that mugshot, nobody’s ever gonna forget him.

Shane: That’s actually what – I was wondering if you’d seen that mugshot.

Keith: Who hasn’t?

Shane: With his hair all, I was like, that looks like half the hail chasers I know, after they’ve rolled out of bed at 11:00 in the morning. So.

Keith: You laugh. There’s a PDR tech in my town that has a mugshot that looks just like that, dude.

Shane: That is awesome. Gary Busey! I know you haven’t seen that commercial, but he’s yelling at a TV. It’s pretty funny. All right, right into the show. What are we gonna talk about today, Keith?

Keith: I was hoping you were gonna tell me.

Shane: I guess that makes two of us, that have no idea. All right, today, we’re gonna talk about – we’ve kinda went over this topic before, Keith, but it’s something that’s been on my mind, and something that I have to preach to myself constantly, and I believe you do, also. And, that is that I’m not trying to have a job, here. It’s not a job, so.

Keith: What is it?

Shane: What is it? It’s whatever you make it. That’s why I’m saying it’s not a job. It can be a job, and that’s what I tend to make it, 90 percent of the time.

Keith: Man, it’s easy when –

Shane: It’s just a job.

Keith: It’s just a job, it’s so easy.

Shane: It’s really easy when it’s just a job. The reason – I was talking to another tech yesterday, and this tech said something about, when I started this new job, talking about PDR. And, it hurt my ears when he said it. I mean, I really – I mean, I cringed. And then, so I started preaching just a little bit. So, I said, “Dude, I’m preaching to myself as I tell you this, because I need it as much as you do, because that’s the way I think when I come in here to this shop every morning. I think, all right, I’m gonna make as much money as I possibly can.”

I mean, that’s the entire scope, half the time, of what we are doing. And, yes, that is the bottom line.

Keith: Right.

Shane: But, we get tunnel vision into how we’re going to attain that, and how much is enough and what do we have to do to make that amount of money? And so, I started going into this little awfulness tangent with him, and started talking about the hammers. Started talking about with you, with tabs, Keith. Okay, did it take some money to get that tab business started? Okay?

Keith: Yes.

Shane: Okay, your answer is more of a yes than mine was. Than mine is.

Keith: Let me just put it this way. When I was a kid, I really liked cars. And, that’s, of course, carried through to my adulthood. But, I used to have a poster on my wall. It was like, six feet long, it was of a Lamborghini. And I thought, I don’t care what I have to do one day, I’m gonna own this Countach. This is the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen. Now, I work around cars, and on cars now, so there’s no way in heck I’d ever buy a Countach. However, I could have. But, instead, I started a tab business. It takes that kinda money.

Shane: Oh, man. So, I was talking to this guy, kinda preaching to him, and preaching to myself again. Half the time, when I start on a diatribe, I’m talking to myself just as much as I am anyone else?

Keith: Oh, yeah.
Shane: So, I’m speaking to him, I’m like, “We get this scope of money in our heads.” When I left that plant, Keith, I said, I told myself, “If I make X amount of dollars, I’ll be okay.” And that’s kind of what I strove for. And, when I hit that, I was okay with it, and then I became complacent, then I started making more money, not even trying.

Keith: Right.

Shane: And, did that happen to you also? I’m sure it’s happened to pretty much everybody that’s in this business. When I say without even trying, that’s not entirely true, but business starts coming to you.

Keith: It wasn’t a huge goal; you just did the work in front of you.

Shane: Right, yeah, you can’t become – it turns springtime, and tax money is rolling in, and a few dealers that I have – or the dealers that I had at that point, they start selling a bunch of cars, and I’ve gotta repair a bunch more cars where it hails in the area, and then I’m ignorantly rich for, in a very quick fashion.

Keith: Hood rich.

Shane: Yeah, hood rich, and when I say – it’s not that I was rich, it’s just that I’ve got several tens of thousands of dollars in a year, that you didn’t know were gonna come in. So, it’s kinda by accident.

Keith: Shane, if a man has his health, three good friends, and whatever else make believe thing comes in a greeting card, then he is rich.

Shane: Yeah, well, you’re actually – the more money I make, because of the more I work, the more I think you’re correct in that statement. That’s from working people, and it’s true, it sounds great. But, that’s why I’m saying this. I’ve got – we have to – see, I keep saying I, because I’m preaching to myself, it’s constant with me on this topic. I’ve got to, we’ve got to create something different, or I’ve got to, anyway. If you wanna keep this as a job, and you wanna make X amount of money? If you’re a hail chaser, and you’re making $300,000 a year, and you’re throwing $100,000 a year back, and you’re gonna retire in 15 years, and that is your entire goal, cool. Go for it. It’s a job, you know, and –

Keith: To the one guy you’re talking to.

Shane: I would like to know if any of them are saving $100,000 a year. I would really like to know that. But, you hear what I’m saying, Keith, and listeners, you hear what I’m – I hope you understand what I’m trying to get across is – we’ve talked about it before, but make this a freaking job every day when I come in. But, back to the – and, I know I’m kind of going, not letting Keith talk here.

Keith: I’m listening.

Shane: I was talking to him, I said, and he said, if I make X amount of money a year, I’m okay. He kinda did the same thing that I did before, and man, I’m just not happy with that. My expenses are – Keith, you and I have talked about this, and I don’t wanna share specifics on air. My expenses are really low in my life.

Keith: Yeah/

Shane: And, I’ve created that myself. I’ve worked really hard, not only in the dent business, but also in my personal life, to keep that down to a minimum. So, I don’t need to make a ton of money every year. But, what I see is, and again, I wanted to make X amount of dollars, and then I surpassed that, and I liked that feeling, the power that came with that, and then– So, then, I take a little bit of money, and I take a risk with this hammer thing. And then, it’s just kind of taken on a life of its own, right? And, that’s a whole other business that I have, and I’m looking at the amount of money that I spent on that endeavor, and I was talking to this gentleman.

This gentleman that I was talking to yesterday, I said, “An investment of X amount of dollars, and I’ve made X times that.” I’m not gonna say the numbers on the air, I’ve made X times that, I’m, off that investment.

Keith: 900 times that.

Shane: So, I’m like, “I’ve made X times the investment that I put in,” I said, “Dude, imagine if I could sink $2 million into something like that.”

Keith: Right.

Shane: And then it becomes – my mind has changed. Instead of making this a job, I wanna make this something bigger. Whether that be in just the dent business, and hiring more guys, or making it more efficient, or whatever, or creating something different, like you and I have done, Keith, I just, I wanna make something better than a job, and that’s the way I treat it, most of the time.

Keith: It’s really, you know what’s funny is that it’s really kind of a catch-22, like, if you just treat it as a job, life is super easy. You show up when you want, you make the money, you work until you make the money you need, and then you just leave. That’s reality for a lot of guys.

Shane: And, that’s what I said earlier, the greeting card thing. There’s value in that. Dude, it’s easy, and sometimes it’s – sometimes, I just wanna go back to that, honestly. Here I am preaching about that, right, about going away from that. But, at times, I just – that sounds really nice. Really nice.

Keith: Yeah, good stuff. I think it was Damon John on some other podcast I was listening to, and he’s not like, a – I’m not a huge fan of his. I like him just fine, but he’s not somebody I really think is the man, although he’s done amazingly. His, I think his quote was something like, “If I would have known how difficult it was to be rich, I would’ve stayed poor.”

Shane: You know, and I didn’t know who – you’ve told that, you’ve said that quote to me before, and I didn’t know the exact quote, or who it was, but I told that gentleman I was talking to yesterday the same thing, so that’s pretty cool. He was like, I said, and it’s true. Is it not true, Keith? And, you can’t frickin’ let it go, when you have that personality.

Keith: I can’t tell you what time it is right now, when we’re recording this podcast, I won’t.

Shane: We do some really stupid stuff. It’s either insanely early for you, or crazy late for me. And, it’s – so.

Keith: But, anyway –

Shane: And, you can probably tell in my voice which times it’s crazy late for me. Keith tells me constantly, so I guess you guys hear it also, so.

Keith: Go back and listen to all 53 episodes, or whatever it is, and see if you can find out for yourself. But, the reason why I’m saying it’s a catch-22 is if you start there, everybody starts there, almost everybody. And, you just show up at work, you do the work, and you go home with the money, and that’s it. You never consider anything else. But then, you think, okay, I gotta make this into something bigger. Something bigger, that produces money on its own, so maybe I don’t have to – maybe I could just make more money. Just think, well, I wanna make more, so we’ve gotta make this thing bigger.

And, you make it bigger, and you make it bigger, and you make more, but then you have more issues to deal with, more components, and more moving parts, and then you think, okay, this is good, but it’s really hard. I gotta build it bigger so that it takes on a life of its own, and it has its own procedures, and its own life, and then I can kinda step to the side, and just let this thing go, and direct it, and then I’m gonna make money without working so hard. But, making that transition is the one that’s really hard, because you get stuck in the middle one. And then, you wish you could just go back to the first one, sometimes, where you could just make the money and go home. But, you’ve got this thing going so big, and the wheel is spinning so fast, you can’t jump off.

Not without sacrificing all of your work that you put in. So, making that last step, that’s something that Shane and I are still struggling with, we’re still trying to figure it out. We talk quite a bit about the fact that we’re still pushing dents every day, and we’ve got our little companies, with a handful of technicians, and business is good, and life is good. But, we are still working every day, pushing dents. Partially because we enjoy it, but partially because we have not gotten to that step where we can move to the side, and let all the real talented guys take over. We’re still, like, the face of our companies.

So, I mean, we’re talking about this stuff, just like you said, Shane. We’re talking to ourselves as much as we’re talking to anybody else. It’s not easy. It’s really tough to do that. To start – it’s almost like sports, you’ve got the coaches and the players. There’s very few that can play and coach, you know?

Shane: Right.

Keith: And, very few of those players end up as owners.

Shane: Very, well, I don’t know of any players that have end – well, Jordan. Jordan did own part of the Charlotte, I can’t remember. He either owned or part- owned –

Keith: Owns a stake, but he didn’t own the whole thing, right?

Shane: Yeah. Yeah, so, but, and, number one, I know we –

Keith: So, tell me some things that kind of go through your mind, when you’re thinking about this situation, and what you wanna do to get out of it.

Shane: Okay, now, I’m past this one. This first one. But, it’s the one I had to get over right away. Or, not right away.

Keith: Was it challenging?

Shane: Not right away. But, no, and no, you’re right; I’m not past this one. I apologize, Keith. Number one, don’t limit yourself moneywise, and go ahead and tell me why I’m not past it. I already understand.

Keith: Well, every time you think you’ve got a big idea, somebody can come behind you with an even bigger idea. And, I know, it sounds like you’re gonna talk specifically about limiting your thoughts on what a repair is worth, and stuff like that, and what you should make in a day, week, month, year. Is that what you’re talking about?

Shane: Exactly, and –

Keith: Yeah, but someone can come with an even grander scale, that doesn’t even have dollars attached to it. Like, I’m gonna be the PDR service provider in every franchised dealer, nationwide. And, you can say, that’s not even possible. But, somebody has that plan. Somebody’s working on that plan right now. It may not work, it probably won’t. But, somebody has a grand vision, and it’s probably not a guy who pushes dents, you know?

Shane: Right, it’s not normally – something like that, a vision like that, is, you’re limited on time to be able to push dents. So, and that kinda goes with what we’re talking about here. We limit our abilities to do other things, or grow the business, because we’re pushing metals.

Keith: Yeah, you’ve called it the golden handcuffs before.

Shane: Yeah.

Keith: It’s a pretty good analogy.

Shane: The golden handcuffs were that plant for me, at one time. They – this goes right in line with that first topic, don’t limit yourself moneywise, dollarwise. When I was at that plant, I was – they taught me how to do this, dent repair. The first four or five years I was there, I loved that place. We were working for – the Germans basically ran it, at that point, and if you did your job correctly, and you did it well, they left you alone. American management takes over at about year four, five or six, and things start to change. T’s not about what you can do, it’s about who you can do, or know, and I started hating that place. And, I stayed there for 11 total years,

So, for five, six years, I was miserable, hated it, because I was just a number. I wasn’t looked at as being special because of my abilities anymore. And, fricking golden handcuffs. I was making – I wish I tracked it better, back then, Keith, but I was making half to three quarters on the side, is what I – to what I was making in the plant. So, I was 50 to 75 percent more income pushing dents on the side. This was after 10 to 11 hour days at that box.

Keith: How much was a guy at your level making in a plant doing PDR? I think nobody has really talked about that.

Shane: That is a good question. At that plant, at that particular facility, it’s all by grade, it’s all by levels. So, I was a production associate, which covers everyone that works on the floor. Okay, if you’re putting lugnuts of a car, you’re a production associate, if you’re a dent guy, you were a production associate. Didn’t matter what talent level you had, you were a production associate, and that was a flat rate.

Keith: Got it.

Shane: So, when I left, I think I was making – it was $24 an hour, I think, is what it was. So, I’m making, plus benefits, dadadadada, and the benefits were absolutely fantastic, at that point.

Keith: Yeah.

Shane: Not so much anymore, because of costs, but we had everything. Dental, vision, we paid absolutely nothing. Two kids, that was a big deal, you know.

Keith: Yeah.

Shane: All of that, and so, those were the golden handcuffs for me, at that point. Because here was my thought. Man, I’ve got all of these benefits that they’re giving me, they’re matching 401k, 50 percent up to 6 percent of my income, so that’s 3 percent of my income they’re putting in for me, without me, I’m not having to do anything for it. I get three weeks off a year, and I’m making money on the side, I’m doing good. Golden handcuffs. I couldn’t see past that dollar figure that I was making, combined in there on the inside, and on the side, doing side work. Couldn’t see past that.

But, it finally got to the point in year 11, I think I told this story, I’ll go really quick. Literally, the week that I quit, on Monday, I got up, and I told – I had not discussed this with my wife, at all. I mean, none. Not even a hint. The only thing I ever was when I got home every day, I said I hate that place. Monday morning, I got up, and I said, this is it. This is my last week. And, she kind of stared at me.

And, to her credit, she trusted me, and stood behind me, and the rest is history. But, when I left that place, I had, I did what I’m telling everybody right now not to do, I limited myself moneywise. Because, when I left that place, guess what I said, Keith? I was worried, I was scared, I had golden handcuffs, right?

Keith: I know.

Shane: I was scared, so what did I say? What were my exact words?

Keith: If I can just make X, everything’ll be fine.

Shane: Everything will be all right.

Keith: Which is true.

Shane: It is!

Keith: I mean; it’s how you feel when you’re going from a job to a biz.

Shane: And, it was easy, Keith.

Keith: Well, $24 an hour, wasn’t too tough.

Shane: And, I was so low priced back then. I was following the guys that started in this area, and I was charging what they were on their wholesale level. They charge the same retail as they do wholesale, even now, Keith, because they absolutely suck, and they can’t fix a dent to retail to save their life. But, I was following, and I was just – yeah, I was doing fine. I was making more money, but I still had these benefits that I had to pay for. That I didn’t have, that I had to compensate for. So, the first year, I was surprised, I was like, wow. I looked back over the first year, and I went, I had one day, where I had a half a day, I didn’t have anything to do, that is so awesome.

And, I made X amount of money. I made it. We’re cool. And then, hail hit, I got hood rich for a while, and then you start expecting more –

Keith: Probably jacked those numbers up too.

Shane: Exactly. So, limiting yourself moneywise, if you think that way, you’re gonna stay that way. You’re gonna luck into more money, you’re gonna have busy times, it’s gonna hail in your area, it’s just gonna happen for you. But, if you limit – if you tell yourself, I just wanna make X – okay, let’s say it’s $100,000 a year, If I can make $100,000 a year, my first year doing PDR, I’m great. And so, the first year you hit, second year, you hit. Third year, you hit $200K. Your mind is still set on that 100K, and then you hit that 200K, So, the next year, you’re like, all right, if I can do 200K again, that’d be cool.

We limit ourselves moneywise, based on the past, we don’t need to do that. We don’t need to limit ourselves at all.

Keith: The time has come. The Black Plague Smooth Series Tabs are a reality. They are available for you now on If you’ve been living under a rock, it is time to come out, we are making money out here with glue pulling, and we’re using the Smooth Series tabs to do it. We are getting pulls out of these tabs that you cannot get from any tabs, no matter the price. These things flat hook up strong, snappy pulls, every time. These tabs, along with the Green Glue that we have also on the site, are blowing people away. If you wanna be a part of the movement, get yourself over there and get some tabs into your box., or, Guys, the game has changed, don’t be left behind. Stay on the cutting edge.

You know, a lot of this, a lot of these goals that we set are just personal goals, for our own production. And, you know, there’s a limit to how hard you can push that engine. Okay, I did 200, I’m gonna do 300.

Shane: Oh, yeah.

Keith: I did 300, I’m gonna do four. I mean, it’s really hard to do 4 or 500 by yourself, that’s a lot of dents. Even if your prices are really good.

Shane: Well, if you chase hail, and you’re willing to go all over the world, it’s still a butt load. I’m not saying it’s easy, Keith, I’m just saying it’s possible.

Keith: Right, okay. So, you do four or five. Then, how are you gonna get to six or seven? And, you know, very, very few people in the world, or in our affluent country, here in the States, are gonna get anywhere near four or five, in any profession. There’s very few people that actually make that kind of income. And, keep in mind, we’re talking about a gross, here. It’s not money in your pocket. Unless you’re not paying taxes. But, if you’re gonna keep growing, if that’s your goal, and you’re probably – you probably have a goal like that, if you’re listening to this podcast, that’s probably something you wanna do, you wanna keep getting better, that’s what we’re about, here.

So, that’s why we resonate with you, and that’s why we’re listening. So, if you wanna get to the next level, you can’t do it by yourself. It’s another quote that I’ve shared a lot, but I love. It was an interview with Richard Branson, who – I think everyone knows who he is, he’s like one of the world’s richest guys. He’s a multibillionaire, and he has, I don’t know how many companies. Several hundred companies that are billion dollar companies or something like that.

Shane: Fantastic hair, too.

Keith: Don’t quote me on the figures, they’re muddy figures. But, the point is, the dude does a ton of business in a ton of different industries, and he does it on a huge scale. And, the – one of the guys who was interviewing him asked him, you know, it’s hard enough to run one company, and you run hundreds of companies, all at the highest level. How do you do it? How do you do all that work? And, he says, “Well, first of all, you can’t do anything.” And, I love that. It’s like; it was so real and so basic. You can’t do anything. If he does something, he’s out of the game. He needs to put the proper people in the right positions and direct them, and they do the work.

If he does the work, he can’t do anything else. He’s tied up with the work. So, the fact that – it seems so backwards, to do a lot, you have to do nothing. But, to do the actual physical work, with your hands, and your mouth, and your mind, you can’t do that work all day. So, if your goal is to get your business to a point two times, five times, ten times revenue of what it is now, you can’t do it the way you’re doing it now. You can’t be the dent guy, and run the company. Now, I’m not saying that’s your goal, or it should be your goal. It might not be. There’s nothing wrong with pushing your own dents, by yourself, in your truck, until your done working. There’s nothing wrong with that.

And, we’re here to help you make as much money as you can doing that, because that’s a cool existence. You have no employees; you have no one to worry about. You show up, you do the work, you run your company. It doesn’t take that much time to run a website and a back office for a one-man show, and it can still be really lucrative. Nothing wrong with that, But, if you wanna get to the next level, and then the next and the next after that, at some point, you’ve gotta change your mindshift, because – or your mindset, because you’re not gonna get there with what got you here. You know?

Shane: Right, so, you recognize it, and you do it, Keith, also. I do it, you do it, we –

Keith: Oh, yeah. That’s why I say we’re preaching to ourselves. I mean, we – I am still the frontman of this company, and I’m working slowly to move away from that, but it’s a – it’s much easier, I think, or it would be, if you start this business not as a technician, which, it doesn’t happen. But, if you’re gonna start as a business owner, it’s much easier to understand, okay. We need to put X amount of techs in place, we need to cover XYZ territory, we need to do it in this fashion, and then, you just keep adding to that equation. But, when you start as the guy, it’s really tough to go backwards, or sideways, and change that.

Shane: Yeah. Dang near impossible.

Keith: Yeah, so if you’re struggling –

Shae: It’s hard to let go.

Keith: Don’t beat yourself up, but if you wanna do it, it’s worth having this conversation, and talking about it. But, building a job is what most of us do. So, what else do you think about when you’re talking about – when you’re trying to talk yourself out of building a job?

Shane: I kind of touched on it already, Keith, with the hammer thing, and that is, examine the scope of your business, of your endeavors that are associated with your business. So, again, if your goal – and, this ties into number one, what I’m about to say. If your goal is to make $600 a day, the scope of your endeavors are gonna match that. Okay, that’s what you’re gonna do to make that happen, is gonna match $600 a day. It’s not going to match an unlimited amount of money per day.

Keith: Yeah, it’s not gonna match – if your goal is $600, you’re not gonna be the service provider in every franchised dealer.

Shane: Right. And, that’s the way I used to think, and that is the way I still think at times. So, I’ve got to go secure X account, or X amount more of retail gigs per day, per month, whatever. And so, the scope of your endeavors related to your business, they’re going to reflect what you’re after. Okay, so –

Keith: Well, they should.

Shane: Yeah, they should They will.

Keith: Yeah, what you’re truly after. They’re not gonna affect, or reflect what you think you’re after, what you say you’re after.

Shane: Okay, good point, good point. Yeah, they’re gonna reflect what you’re truly after, and not what you’re thinking. Or, not what you think you’re after, or you say you’re after. So, our tab and hammer business, being again – with me, Keith, I was pushed by someone. I’m not gonna say his name.

Keith: You dare not.

Shane: To do this, to start this whole hammer thing, and the video, and everything, and I was like, ech, whatever. But, after I got started, and got involved in creating something like this, it was really neat for me, and you’re big on – you have fun with that also. So, it was kind of a fun thing for me, creating something. I do like creating things, I’ve done some art stuff in the past.

Keith: I was just gonna say, I was just gonna bring that up, because I don’t think a lot of people know about that side of you. You’ve been pretty heavy into art for a long time. Your business has kind of taken over the past few years, so you haven’t done much of it.

Shane: Right, right.

Keith: But, you’re into physical art.

Shane: And, I can’t draw anything to save my life, but I can create something. I can sculpt, I can take an idea or an object, and I can recreate that object fairly well. Keith, you know those decorative wood carvings? Ducks, fish –

Keith: You still have some of those pictures, we should put some of those on the pod, on the website.

Shane: Yeah, yeah, we can do that. I mean, it’s kind of off-topic. If you want to, that’s fine, I don’t care.

Keith: No, I thought that was cool when you first showed them to me, I know you were kinda humble about them; you didn’t really wanna show them to me. But, it’s interesting to me, for a guy that can repair dents at your level, that I’ve always thought this is just an art that we do. I wonder if a really high level artist; if I could show him what the objective is with PDR, and he could flatten metal, because he’s welding up crazy abstract shapes, and making them look beautiful. He works with metal, making up the shapes he sees in his mind, I wonder if I could train him to do this? And, it kind of was like, my theory played out in real life, you know?

Shane: Right, and yeah, it is. And, I’ve done the wood carvings, and they’re really intricate, and Keith, you’ve seen the abstract sailfish that I made out of rebar, sitting in my office, that’s seven and a half feet long,

Keith: Yeah.

Shane: And, it’s just, one day, I got bored at the shop, at my old shop. I finished at 4:00, which was odd for me, and I had rebar sitting outside. So, I went and grabbed it, cut it and started welding, and four or five hours later, I had this seven-and-a-half-foot sailfish made out of rebar and washers, and big washers. And, again, that’s, I don’t know how we got started on the art thing. How did that even start? I’m confused now. But, so I’d done this art stuff, and it does kinda tie into PDR, and I do believe it helped me with seeing the PDR. Being able to see what I’m doing with the metal. I didn’t work with metal before that. It was all with wood, basically, for the most part. But, I can see what you’re saying, the artistic side.

I know a guy that does pinstriping, airbrushing, all that stuff, you know?

Keith: Yeah.

Shane: He’s insanely good. His name is Mark Peters. And, he does a lot of the high end show cars, and whatnot, and he lives a few hours from me in North Carolina, but the guy is an unbelievably good artist, for the most part. I really have, Chris. See, I can’t even say your name. Keith, I really, really, really have to work hard to do the business side of this stuff, honestly. It’s not second nature. It’s second nature for you. You eat breathe sleep live it, I have to really concentrate, to do the same thing you do. Honestly.

Keith: Yeah, it’s a little different, but I can’t carve ducks.

Shane: Yeah, well –

Keith: Well, technically I could. But, you wouldn’t perceive them as ducks.

Shane: Right. And there are times, again, there are times, Keith, where I just, I look at this fish that’s in my office, and I go home, and I look at those things that I’ve created, the ducks, the fish, all that stuff. And I go, man, I remember when I made X amount of dollars per year, I survived, and I lived

Keith: I had some time to make some ducks.

Shane: I did some stuff I enjoyed. But, honestly, my scope now is – again, I’m preaching to myself here. I’m building something for the future, and I want my future to be profitable, and I wanna be Richard Branson rich.

Keith: You’re not gonna do it in your current state, I can promise you that.

Shane: I completely understand that. Completely.

Keith: Here’s an interesting side note. You’ve actually owned a pair of Sal Contreras goggles, long before Sal Contreras used them to win the Dent Olympics.

Shane: I owned a pair when I was 12 years old.

Keith: You’re saying for your wood carving, right?

Shane: For wood carving, yep. And, I completely understood, when he wore those. He posted a picture online, a couple of months before the NT. He posted a picture of those, randomly, just the goggles. And, I knew what they were, I was like, oh, he’s gonna use those in the Dent Olympics. And, it was pretty fun. I didn’t say anything, I didn’t comment or anything, but I was like, I know exactly what those are, those are basically magnifying goggles, and we use those to burn in the feathers and the hair, and the fish scales on the ducks, because they have to be done – fish scales on the fish, and the feathers on the ducks.

Because they have to be done one hair at a time, with a superhot sharp knife, so the better you can see, the closer you can put those hairs together. So, yeah, I’ve had a pair of those since I was about 12. Never used them to fix dents, though.

Keith: All right. Maybe it’s time.

Shane: Maybe it’s time. Maybe I’ll get even better at what I do.

Keith: For those of you who are not in the fanboy world of dent removal, and haven’t listened to every episode we’ve done, you might not know who the heck we’re talking about. Sal Contreras is our buddy out of the San Francisco Bay Area, who’s a really talented dent repair guy, who’s got a really different way of looking at things, and we’ve come to be friends with him over the years, and he competed in the last Dent Olympics at the Mobile Tech Expo, in Orlando, Florida, in January 2015, and he won it. With, he had the best repair of anyone competing around the world, so he’s the number one guy.

But, he used these magnifying goggles to really tweak out on that dent, and look really close into the bottom of it, and make every little bit perfect, and I suspect somebody else will wear them.

Shane: Took home the W with them. Yeah, for seeing the very center, the center of that thing’s pretty deep, and for seeing the center, focusing in on each orange peel, in the beginning, I can see how that would really help immensely, so.

Keith: Especially when you’re getting on in years like Sal.

Shane: We’ll be there shortly homeboy.

Keith: Very shortly. Sal still has better hair than me.

Shane: Way better. So does Richard Branson.

Keith: That was low, right there.

Shane: So, a major hailstorm has affected your area, what do you do now? Your phone is ringing off the hook, dealerships are enquiring about your services, and retail customers and body shops are eager to get in touch with you as well. You want to capture as much as possible while still retaining your sanity. Now, how do you do this? How do you close deals, deal with customers and answer an unrelenting phone, all while not losing your mind? Enter a PDR management company, like The Hail Company. The Hail Company will come into town, and manage sites of all sizes and kinds, to maximize your profit potential.

From placing the correct techs in the correct positions that they fit best, to total management of wholesale operations, the Hail Company will do whatever is necessary to make your storm experience a good, and more importantly, profitable one. So, give Ryan a call today, at 636-734-5470, or email him at That’s

Keith: All right, so any last words on this topic, before I move on to reading our fantastic iTunes reviews?

Shane: No. We only got to two of the, I believe three or four, but I believe you get the gist of what we’re trying to convey here.

Keith: And, like Shane said, we did a whole episode on this, Episode 26, Build a Career or Build a Job. But, Shane was just really passionate about it, he was talking about it, and we decided you can’t talk about this too much. We talk a lot about the day to day PDR stuff, but sometimes it’s nice to – it’s not nice. Sometimes it’s important to raise up to 30,000 feet, and look down, and see what the heck you got going on down there, and realize that things may be great, perfectly aligned, but they may not be. But, you gotta get up there, and really look down, and see, okay, where am I really going with this, and am I doing the steps, and I doing the things that are gonna get me there?

And, for most of us, the answer is no. You’re not doing the right things to get you where you think you wanna go. So, it’s good to have that conversation, and if you have a spouse that helps you run the company, it’s really good to have it with them. Because, like it or not, as much as you think they are or are not a part of the company, they’re a huge part of it. Because when you’re not at home, you’re at work, and when you’re at home, if you’re working, you’re taking time away, and they’re helping dictate what decisions you make. So, you gotta both be on board, if you’re gonna get there.

Shane: Very true, sir.

Keith: So, we’ve got some awesome iTunes reviews. We wanna thank all of you guys for taking the time to come on there and leave us a review. If you haven’t, and you want to, you’re straight up lazy. You’ve gotta do it for us. You’ve been telling yourself, and you haven’t. But, for those of you that have, you’re the man, or lady. I don’t think there’s been any ladies. I don’t know. If you’re a lady listener, give us a shout-out, because I don’t know if we have any.

Shane: Well, there was one guy that said his wife couldn’t stand me. She was listening to me in the background. He was listening to me, and she heard it and said, who is that a-hole? So, there is one ex-listener, for a few seconds, at least.

Keith: And, we do have, our buddy was telling us about his wife who listens because he had it on his speaker.

Shane: Oh, yeah, I know what you’re talking about. Doo-doo, doo-doo, doo-doo, doo-doo. She knew the song.

Keith: Anyway, so the first one, the first new one, which is not that new, but we haven’t read these off in a while, is from January 17, by Troy T. Brewer. Talking about the greater good, was his title. “Five stars, and no amount of words can do this podcast justice. I truly appreciate what these guys bring to the table each week. Such valuable information for any person in sales, or any business, for that matter. Raising the bar, pushing their peers and colleagues to get better, and providing plenty of laughs. This is – this podcast is simply outstanding. Thanks Keith and Shane, for doing what you do.” Thank you, Troy, that’s an awesome review.

Shane: Yes. Thank you Troy.

Keith: Moving on to BMore Matty, from January 24, Great PDR Talk, 5 Stars. “I’m a 10 year-plus guy, who has been doing, quote unquote, “just enough” type of work for the past few years, because the main account I hold would tolerate it, and wouldn’t care if my work was glassed, or good enough for payable. I would only break out the “skills” for retail work. But, even those occurrences were getting limited, due to my own motivation. Over the last few months, I’ve had an energized resurgence, from getting involved in PDR threads, and buying new tools, this podcast validates a career I took for granted for too long. There are many of us out here husting a career doing PDR, not doing PDR Olympics, or a $5,500 hail jobs, just knocking out every day damage. Well done.”

“By the way, Shane’s hillbilly voice is about as great as Keith’s, “That’s great Shane, but I think we talked about that before.” comments. Great podcast, keep it up.” A poignant comment there, Bmore Matty. Every story we tell, like, man, Shane, I think we might have told that story before. We might be out of stories.

Shane: We’re not out of stories yet.

Keith: No, but I think –

Shane: There’s always ones to be made up.

Keith: I think everybody now, worldwide, knows that I once didn’t believe in mini-lifters.

Shane: And that neither of us have any hair.

Keith: Yes. I’ve got more than you, I think, and I’m holding on to that as long as I can.

Shane: Well, you’re younger than I am.

Keith: Yes, by a good bit. Moving on.

Shane: All right, whatever.

Keith: To a comment by John Danz, and John was a guy who was at our Advanced Skills Seminar, an awesome guy, really positive, motivated guy.

Shane: Yes, yes.

Keith: And, “5 Stars, Get Better. Congratulations of Episode 51 and counting, and happy one-year anniversary to two outstanding individuals who are helping all those who listen get better every day. The podcast is polished and professional, and the friendship and humor between the hosts drives the energy of the show. If you want to, quote-unquote, drop kick mediocrity in the throat, or rupture the spleen of mediocrity, my two favorite lines, thanks Keith, you have come to the right place. Thanks, gentlemen, all the best in 2015.”

Shane: I don’t like John. Neither one of his two favorite quotes were form me, they were both from you. Not cool, John, not cool.

Keith: I do like drop kick mediocrity in the throat, that is a good one.

Shane: Yeah, yeah, it flows off the tongue a little better than the spleen.

Keith: Beautiful.

Shane: Yes, it is. Any more?

Keith: Yes, there’s several more. “PDR Podcast Has Changed How I Perceive the Business, 5 stars. I started listening to PDR podcast a few months ago. Luckily, I was able to sort of binge on it, for lack of better words, having almost a year downloaded. I listened to all of them two to three times, and can’t wait for the next. I feel very lucky. I live in a place where there are no other PDR techs, and the population are over 40 years old, who make decent money. I’ve been working on getting my skill level up to snuff, enough to start working on friends and family’s cars, who don’t care what their cars look like. Even though I’m a perfectionist, and will sit on a ding for hours, until it’s perfect.”

“I made the mistake of buying a used Ding King set, before I knew anything about good tools, and what they can do.” As a side note, I still use some of my Ding King tools, so you’re not out of luck here, buddy. “I’m in the same beginning stages that Dent Olympics Glue Pulling winner Mike Brodden started in, except without the Ding King class. I’m figuring it out without a mentor, and I can’t explain how difficult it’s been. Luckily, I’ve got a background in fabrication, and have been building a lot of my own tools, not to mention a drive to succeed more than anyone I know. I built a four foot LED fog board, a handful of stainless steel custom rods, and I take my pro PDR tips, and a set of quarter-inch Dent Dials.”

“They save me money, as it’s very tight, and tools are expensive. I’ll wind this down, but just wanted to say that this podcast has helped, and is still helping me through the hard times. They, in essence, are my mentors. Being the only guy within 70 miles, shooting to scoop up all the retail work, as well as inform my town about PDR, and the benefits of PDR, is a sizable undertaking, but I feel that I can do it. Amazing how many people have never heard of it. But, I will continue to advance until I become the best, and hopefully, only mobile PDR tech in our area. Thank you guys, because of you, I will not sell our special skillset short, and will continue to laugh every week, while getting better.”

That was by MB Sylvia, on February 1, 2015. So, that was pretty cool.

Shane: Yes.

Keith: As a side note.

Shane: Thank you, MB.

Keith: Thank you very much, but I would not recommend making too many of your own tools, unless you’re, like, master fabricator. Because especially starting out new, you may not know exactly what you think you want. You may think you want something, but the industry has made tools in a certain fashion, that everybody’s proven work. You’re trying to forge your own way, there, and you can go down a couple of dead end runs, and not realize it, because you don’t have the skills yet to ferret that out. So, as the money comes in, buy some high-level tools. You’ll thank me later.

Last one is from Cody Dents, February 4, “One word: Awesome. 5 stars. Keith and Shane are a lot of fun to listen to. I’m still catching up on a lot of the episodes, since I only discovered PDR College about two months ago. However, in those two months, I have increased my revenue way faster than I could have ever imagined. They definitely know what they’re talking about, and I truly enjoy listening to them on the way to a job, and then using the tips I learned that same day.” Thanks, Cody.

That’s some of the best parts about some of this stuff, is that you’re in your truck, learning your skills, and then you move right on to the customer, five seconds later.

Shane: Yeah. It can be immediate, which is pretty cool.

Keith: Shane, you got a tool review for us today?

Shane: Yes, I do, Keith, and it comes from a fairly new company, who’s sort of stormed onto the scene here, lately, with a bunch of – well, they come to market with several new products all at one time, which is pretty impressive. And, it’s Dent Technology, Inc., and they have this new material that they’re using for knockdowns, Keith, and you’ve seen them online, but you haven’t used them, correct?

Keith: I have not, no.

Shane: Okay, so I heard a lot of good things about them, and about those knockdowns, and the guy that works for me here, one of my techs, he decides to order some and try them out, and he gave me a couple of the tips, the screw-on tips, to put on a knockdown, the interchangeable tip knockdown, and these tips are – this material that he’s using is really good. It does not mushroom nearly as quickly as the other plastic materials out there. They’re really sharp out of the box, and they stay that way. I was really whaling on a – it wasn’t like a door edge, or a double skin, or anything like that, Keith.

But, it was, I believe it was like, a fold edge, and I was hitting it pretty hard, and expecting a little bit of mushrooming out of it. And, it just didn’t do it. It stayed sharp. Now, it’s going – I mean, with enough pressure, it’s a plastic, it’s going to mushroom.

Keith: Right.

Shane: Eventually, and under the right amount of pressure. But, it’s good stuff. And, the root beer? What was that stuff called, what was that material called?

Keith: Altum?

Shane: Yeah, Altum. Altum can, if you don’t have it polished up exactly right, it can scratch really easily. I’ve had that happen quite a bit with the Altum.

Keith: Yeah, sometimes.

Shane: Yeah, with this, it’s not scratching, it’s – this material, I’m only about two weeks into using it, Keith, and you know I don’t use a knockdown that much, but I’m looking for it when I grab one now. So, now, he sells them in – he sells two different products that have to do with knockdowns. One is just a four-inch knockdown. A solid, plastic knockdown, and it’s $20, and he sells the screw-on tips that go in your interchangeable tip knockdown, and he sells those for $8. And, yes, they are a little more than other tips, and a little more than other knockdowns, but get off of the extra $10 cash, and get on something that works better.

Keith: $20, $20, that’s a lot?

Shane: Don’t be stupid. Okay, regular knockdowns are what, $8 to $10?

Keith: How many times a day do you use a knockdown?

Shane: I’m telling y’all, it’s relative.

Keith: All fricking day.

Shane: Look, you’re preaching to the choir here, bud, that’s what I’m saying.

Keith: I’m so tired of guys that are fricking penny pinchers. You know what, if you don’t wanna spend $20 instead of $10 for a tapdown, go make your own crap out of wood. But don’t, you know. If it’s not worth it to you, then just keep your mouth shut, and go do something else.

Shane: Yeah.

Keith: You know what, there’s guys out here like – I think his name’s Jeremy, right, who runs that company?

Shane: Jeremy Langton, yep.

Keith: Yeah, there’s guys out here, burning fricking midnight oil, every night, after I’m sure he’s pushing dents during the day, trying to test new materials and test new shapes, to try to make something better for the industry. It’s not easy to do, and this guy’s not getting rich of tapdowns, everybody knows that. But, anybody that would say it’s too expensive at $20, you guys can suck it, dude. Go back to 1991, and use the tapdown that came with whatever you had before then, if it’s too much for you, And, I haven’t heard anybody say that, but I know there’s some guy, and I’m talking to you.

Shane: Oh, yeah. I’ve seen it said. Wow, that’s a lot for a knockdown.

Keith: Then don’t use it. Go away. Go away, and never come back. Because the most expensive thing is usually the best thing when you’re talking about a tool. It’s not always the case, but it’s generally the case. And, if you want crappy tools, they’re super cheap. Go get them on eBay. But, don’t complain about a tool that makes you thousands of times the money that it costs. Not thousands of dollars, thousands of times. I’ve got a tool that I – like what I was talking about a minute ago, in that review. A Ding King tool, that I started with. And everyone can talk tons of smack on the Ding King, it’s a stainless steel tool that I’ve had for 17 years.

Shane: Which one is it, Keith? I may have the same one.

Keith: There’s three or four of them, but this particular one is, I don’t know, it’s about a half inch, a 30-some odd inch triple bend, shaped sides, to a degree, with a relatively pointy tip.

Shane: Not an Eagle Qualitype? Does it have a green handle?

Keith: Yeah, it has a green T-handle.

Shane: Yeah, I’ve got the same exact tool, that I got second hand. I didn’t get it, somebody else got it, and I use that thing quite a bit.

Keith: And, I – it’s never broken, it’s stainless steel, doesn’t rust, And, maybe it’s a piece of crap. But, the point is, it was maybe $100. If that, when I got it. I wouldn’t be surprised, if you could add it up, because you can’t, you know, what tools you use on what dents. But, I can promise you I’ve done $50.000 in revenue, with this one tool, over my career. I promise you that. That’s easy, there’s probably more than that. But, anybody that would compare, complain about that, the price of a tool, you’re not in the business, get out.

Because these tools don’t cost you money, they make you money, if you’re working. If you’re just an armchair jockey, and you wanna talk about tool prices, then they probably are expensive, you’re just gonna hang them on your wall. But, if you’re actually working every day, and a $20 tapdown is not marring and not mushrooming, it’s gonna make you a ton more money. It should be $50. Done ranting.

Shane: It was a good rant, though, and in the case of this knockdown, if it mushrooms, I think his claim – and I’m not gonna say this is true, I can’t prove that. His claim is, it mushrooms ten times less than ordinary knockdowns. So, if you’re – even if it’s only five times less. If you’re not having to sharpen this thing five times less, you’re making a whole lot more than that extra $10, in that time period that you’re not sharpening your knockdown, and polishing the end back up.

Keith: Right.

Shane: So, it’s stupid to have that mentality, like you said, Keith. But, again, that’s

Keith: And, of course, we’ll have a link on the PDR College website, with this episode. Well, I don’t know why I didn’t get a free sample of that thing, but I wanna test it out too. I actually wanted to buy it while we were at the show, but I just couldn’t leave the booth.

Shane: Yeah.

Keith: Or send anybody to get one for me.

Shane: It was literally right behind us.

Keith: I know, but no. I probably could’ve stolen one.

Shane: Probably. I may have.

Keith: Reached through that curtain.

Shane: That may be why I’m pimping it now, I feel guilty for the theft.

Keith: Are you trying to stay on the cutting edge of paintless dent removal when it comes to your tools? Well, if so, you need to make sure you have two things in your arsenal. One is the Shane Jacks Jackhammer Blending Hammer. Find it at If you wanna learn blending, we’ve got an awesome tutorial to go along with the hammer, right there on the site. You’re gonna love it. You’re gonna learn something, and get better, and make money. In addition to the hammer, if you are doing any glue pulling, you need to have the Black Plague Crease Tabs.

It’s a six-piece crease pulling set. The two largest are absolute monsters, they are gonna pull out collision damage like nothing else you’ve got available, and the smaller sizes are gonna be for the normal, everyday kind of door edges, and minor, minor collision dents, and a dogleg, and a bottom of a door. I’m telling you guys, it is gonna change the way you do your repairs when you have the cutting edge tools, and these are two of them., Check out the sites, guys, bring yourselves into the 21st century.

Do not forget about ReconPro, the software that we use to run our PDR companies This stuff is phenomenal. You’re entering all of your information on your device, which is an iPhone, you’re scanning the vin with the camera of it, everything’s populated in there for you, you buzz that little rascal off via magic, off to a server somewhere, it’s all living on a server. You can dunk the phone in a bucket of water as soon as you’re done, you don’t lose any data, everything’s paperless, the invoice is delivered electronically, you can send duplicates at a moment’s notice.

Guys, get off paper, quit screwing around., ReconPro, get your business into the 21st century. Well, thank you, all you fellas for writing us those reviews, those were really cool. If you wanna write a review for us, do it in iTunes, that’d be awesome. They live up there, and they help iTunes put the podcast where people can see it. If there’s a lot of people reviewing it, they figure it must be popular, so more people can find it. So, if you wanna do that for us, it’d be fantastic. In the meantime, fellas?

Shane: Get better.

[End of Audio]

Duration: 60 minutes.

Previous Podcast
Next Podcast