Interview w The Best Glue Puller In the World
Keith Cosentino: I’m Keith Cosentino. He’s Shane Jacks. And this is the PDR College Podcast. Your No. 1 source for expert level information on the paintless dent removal industry. We are here to help you dominate your competition using battle-tested techniques, skills and insights from 20-year vets to make tons and tons of cash. Shane, tell these boys why you need so much cash.
Shane Jacks: Well, Keith, I need cash to support this $1,000.00 giveaway habit that I seem to have developed over the last couple of weeks.
Keith Cosentino: You didn’t have another one I didn’t know about, did you?
Shane Jacks: No. One was enough, dude. That hurt, hurt bad.
Keith Cosentino: One was plenty. Not me. That was the best $1,000.00 I gave away all year.
Shane Jacks: It still hurt, man. You’re worse than I am, dude.
Keith Cosentino: It was good time with a fanny pack full of money. It was a good time to do it.
Shane Jacks: It was, for sure.
Keith Cosentino: Man, and speaking of who we gave that money away to, we are gonna be talking bout that fellow in just a minute, but first, let’s recap where we’ve been. For a couple of weeks, everybody’s been blowing up my messages and emails and asking me, “What the heck’s going on? Where’s the podcast? We have one every week and now we don’t have one for two weeks.” What the heck was going on, man?
Shane Jacks: I was abducted by aliens. I don’t know about you.
Keith Cosentino: Everything was going on for me.
Shane Jacks: It was an awesome couple of weeks with Mobile Tech Expo. The seminar that PDR College put on, the Advanced Skills Seminar, took a lot of preparation.
Keith Cosentino: Holy smokes, it sure did.
Shane Jacks: Keith and I both got down there pretty early. I got there very early Sunday morning. We’ll call it Saturday night. Keith arrived on Monday, flew in. It was a busy week. We intended on recording at least one of those podcasts while we were there. Keith’s fuzzy microphone sat on the desk at the hotel for a few days, but we were so busy trying to put that together and working the booth at Mobile Tech Expo. We had a lot of fun interacting with you guys, and I think most of you or the ones that made it were glad that we were able to interact, better than a podcast anyway. I enjoyed getting to talk to some of the people and meeting them face-to-face. That was pretty cool putting a face to a name. That was pretty awesome.
Keith Cosentino: I sure did too. I especially wanna thank all the guys who came out to the Advanced Skills Seminar. That was a really cool time. We had a great time. We met a lot of awesome guys. Everybody there was super high level. That’s why they’re pursuing advanced training and trying to get better. That was a blast, man. Tons of work. I hope they didn’t see us sweat too hard, but Shane and I were running trying to get everything prepped at the last minute for that thing.
We take for granted how simple the PDR business is. You just show up and move the metal sticks and get the money. Then, that’s it, and you move on to the next thing. Running something else is a totally different animal. There was a lot of behind-the-scenes garbage, I’ll call it, that we needed at the last minute. We had to get all the fuel out of those cars before we could bring them inside and disconnect the battery and get the right guy to put down plastic under the car and all these other things that seemingly make no sense, but you gotta jump through the hoops.
Shane Jacks: It is amazing how much time you can spend preparing for something that looks very simple. Getting the film crew there wasn’t an issue. They came right in. They were awesome, but there was a lot.
Keith Cosentino: My makeup crew never showed up.
Shane Jacks: Never showed up. That will be abundantly evident on tape also.
Keith Cosentino: They were supposed to do something to make me look less fat. I don’t think it happened.
Shane Jacks: We tried a bigger shirt. It didn’t really work.
Keith Cosentino: When I said, “The camera adds 40 pounds,” was it you who said, “Stop eating cameras?”
Shane Jacks: Yes. No. I said, “So do hot dogs.” Then, the camera comment came later.
Keith Cosentino: We did all kinds of stuff. We smashed up some deep hail dents. We introduced the dent depth measuring device we’ve got coming out here pretty soon to actually put some numbers of how deep these dents were. That was pretty interesting for me. I think it was for you too.
Shane Jacks: The depth gauge was really interesting. It’s still blowing my mind, honestly, the measurements we were getting on these dents.
Keith Cosentino: How deep they were not.
Shane Jacks: How deep they weren’t. That is correct.
Keith Cosentino: You look at a nasty old dent, and you think, “That thing’s a quarter of an inch in there.”
Shane Jacks: .9. What? Nine millimeters? Inches? Is that feet? Is this measuring feet?
Keith Cosentino: We were able to really start laying the groundwork for putting down some numbers on what a deep dent is, what a stretch dent is and what level you are performing at, if you can fix this depth of a dent in a steel car. I just brought prototypes to the show and those were really well received by everybody. Even 15- or 20-year techs don’t actually know how deep this stuff is. It seems so elementary. We should know what we’re working on and how deep it is and what we should expect out of it.
We just eyeball it and say, “That’s deep. Has some stretch to it.” Now, we’re gonna be able to put some numbers on that. I had everybody guess how deep the dent was. I’m not just talking about the 30 guys at the training. I’m talking about the whole show when I ran into people and showed them that device. I think maybe one guy was close. Everybody else was off by a factor of 20 or ten or five, way off. Different world. Myself included.
Shane Jacks: I had three guys at one time at the booth. Keith, you were selling tabs. I was pimping that thing big time. Not pimping it. It intrigues me. The measurements we were getting off of that thing really intrigued me. I was “How deep are they?” these were three guys together standing at the hood. “How deep is that Dent Olympics dent?” One guy said, “Five millimeters.” Another guy said, “20.” Another said, “I don’t know. 50?” I was, “Holy crap.”
Keith Cosentino: I had a couple of country boys say to me, “What’s a millimeter?” Come on, fellows. How about a socket? Haven’t you ever taken apart a BMW?
Shane Jacks: Like a gator tooth. How long is that? How many millimeters is that?
Keith Cosentino: Like a Playboy magazine is 12 millimeters thick.
Shane Jacks: Got you. I know exactly what a millimeter is.
Keith Cosentino: We moved on from that. We kicked a car. We had Danny Espanall put 90 percent of his weight into a fender smash. We had Paul Kordon from Virginia come out with the HotBox and we whacked some dents into a car and saw what that was all about without a salesman over the top of us telling us what we should or shouldn’t do. We were able to burn up some paint on purpose. That thing doesn’t burn paint every time you touch it, but we were able to burn it up on purpose to see how much time you really have before it’s over with. The answer is, not a lot.
Shane Jacks: It depends on the setting, but it’s quick.
Keith Cosentino: It has settings from 100 percent down to ten or 20, but if you crank it up to 100 and you just flat out hold it on, you get about a second and a half, which is the equivalent of taking your longest hail rod, putting it a foot into the car and standing on it. Things are gonna end badly, if you go full out on something, but that’s what it was. Then, we had the Dent Olympic Canon show up, and we smashed some dents into, coincidentally, the same make and model vehicle they use in the Olympics. We fixed some of those. We got to measure how deep those were.
Shane Jacks: Interestingly, nobody talked about this, Keith. The Dent Olympic dents at 18 PSI are right around .85, .89 millimeters deep, correct?
Keith Cosentino: Yes.
Shane Jacks: We did one on the front door that I pushed and did it conventionally PDR. Then, they had one on the back door that was 1.4. We cranked it up. That sucker was deep. Then, we had one near the brace that was put in and it was .75.
Keith Cosentino: .77, if I remember perfectly.
Shane Jacks: .77. My man, Keith Cosentino, right here glue pulled that thing to retail quality level. It was strong.
Keith Cosentino: I wanted to do it to see if I could do it.
Shane Jacks: It was really cool. So, Keith, using his awesome tabs and his Jedi skills glue pulled that thing, got it flat.
Keith Cosentino: I used one tab the whole entire time, one BP 12. It’s the 12 millimeter tab. After one or two pulls, I could have gotten behind that thing and finished really quick and clean. The bottom was up. It just had a pit in it, so I had to keep knocking down the shoulders and pulling it again and again. If you do any precision glue pulling, you’re familiar with that routine. It’s just patience and persistence and precision. You gotta be in the right place at the right time. After one or two pulls, there’s the bottom right in front of me.
If I could have just switched to a tool, that would have been a speedy dent. I never though tackling a Dent Olympic dent with a glue tab first would have been a good idea. I would have told you that was the worst idea ever. I thought it would turn into a big mess just because I never had a tab that small that would hook up that hard. To pull those things, you would need a nickel-sized tab, which would just volcano it. That would be a bad deal. Now, we have a tab that sticks in the middle of that thing and gets a bite.
Shane Jacks: I would never admit this, if it weren’t on video and we have footage of it because we were rolling the entire time during the seminar. Keith says, “I wanna try to glue pull one of those.” I said, “Go ahead, bud.” I had zero confidence in that happening. I was impressed.
Keith Cosentino: For the record, I timed out. I think it was 52 or something.
Shane Jacks: Still. You’re aim wasn’t glue pulling the thing in 40 minutes. Just proving to the guys that we were training there that glue pulling something that tight and sharp was possible. There was no swale. I was expecting a swale, if nothing else. There was really no swale in it. It was really nice.
Keith Cosentino: There was when I thought I finished it up close. “That’s flat.” I threw the light back and said, “Whoa. Pretty flat. I need to knock this down a little bit.”
Shane Jacks: What else went on in the class there? There was a lot. We couldn’t go over it all here. It would take us hours.
Keith Cosentino: We had an impromptu session on pricing after we all kicked that fender. Actually, that was from a crease that you put into it.
Shane Jacks: Yes, in a door.
Keith Cosentino: We all talked about pricing and went over different scenarios about how you could attack it and what the price could or should be. That was a lot of fun. I think the next time we do an Advanced Training Seminar, we’re gonna spend a lot more time talking about pricing and selling.
Shane Jacks: That’s where we make our money.
Keith Cosentino: It sure is. I could teach you how to hold these told every which way, but if you can’t get it across to the customer, then you might as well just stay in the truck. In fact, I could probably teach you how to sell and give you a slide hammer and a can of Bondo, and you’d probably do half as well.
Shane Jacks: Probably. I’m sure. Then, we had the actual show.
Keith Cosentino: The show was bananas. We were so busy, I literally didn’t get to walk through the show. I didn’t see anything else, which was kind of a bummer.
Shane Jacks: Not at all. Nothing. Same here. I wasn’t quite as busy as Keith. The first day, I was just as busy as Keith. The second day, my high ticket item died down a bit and Keith was still selling those tabs strong. From what we hear, the show was great. We were stuck in a booth the entire time, but that’s what we were there for, to sell our product.
Keith Cosentino: One of the highlights of the show that I was bummed out I didn’t get to spend more time with was the competition, the Dent Olympics for pushing and glue pulling. That’s a big part of it. Some guys are, “Why would I fix a dent for free? I get paid to fix dents.” Those are the guys that I don’t think could actually bring it, so they just say that stuff. I love to be a part of that. I’ve competed several times, but once I started selling tools, it’s really hard to get away and go over there and work on a car when you’re trying to work the booth. So, I haven’t the last two years. I think this is the second time I haven’t.
Shane Jacks: Yes, this is the second.
Keith Cosentino: I didn’t get to go over there and see anybody compete, which is a lot of fun for me. I like to see the different tools the guys use, the different lighting systems, the different techniques. The guy who won the pushing contest is a guy we’ve had on the show, Sal Contreras, out of the Bay area in California. He wore some jeweler’s glasses just to see up close. I wish I could have seen that. That would have been awesome.
Shane Jacks: I’ve got some of those.
Keith Cosentino: You do?
Shane Jacks: The wood carving that I do, Keith. I use those for the burning. I tried to find them last night. I haven’t done any carving in a while. It wasn’t last night. I couldn’t find them. There was gonna be some pictures and videos put up making fun of Sal, in good humor.
Keith Cosentino: Make fun all you want. He’s got the skills and your trophy.
Shane Jacks: No, mine’s still here. Speaking of guys who say, “I fix dents for money. I don’t pay to fix dents,” We’ve got a guy coming up who will beg to differ. He got paid to fix dents.
Keith Cosentino: To fix a dent at the highest level.
Shane Jacks: At the highest level. You wanna introduce him there, Keith.
Keith Cosentino: Let me tell you what the deal was. There’s a glue pulling competition and plenty of you guys who listen all the time know exactly what I’m talking about, but if this is your first time listening, you might not have heard of this. Shane and I believe our tools are the best. Shane thinks his blending hammer is the best for knocking down, and I think my tabs are the best for pulling metal. I decided to put my money where my mouth is, and I said, “If you win the competition using nothing but my tabs, Black Plague Smooth Series Tabs, I will pay you $1,000.00 cash.” Shane said the same exact thing about the hammer.
So, I think three out of the four guys competing at the highest level had my tabs. One of them was a Japanese guy that probably just couldn’t understand the deal or else he would have been using them too. Guess what? He didn’t win. He might have won or had a chance, but he wasn’t using my tabs. The guy who did decide to win –
Shane Jacks: Decided to win. Like the other three decided not to.
Keith Cosentino: We’re gonna bring this guy on in a second. Ask him if he didn’t win before he put the first tab on.
Shane Jacks: There you go. Okay. I’ll buy that.
Keith Cosentino: Shane, introduce our guest for me.
Shane Jacks: We have the winner of the 2015 Glue Pull Olympics and winner of $2,000.00 in cold, hard cash, Mike Broughton. It is Mike Broughton, correct?
Mike Broughton: Broughton.
Shane Jacks: I should have asked you that before I brought you on. I know Kevin said Broughton up there. I went with that.
Mike Broughton: There’s no “F.”
Keith Cosentino: He was calling Simon, Simone for several years too. I would not base my opinions off what Kevin said.
Shane Jacks: Really? I do apologize, mike.
Mike Broughton: No, it’s fine. I’ve been called worse.
Shane Jacks: He doesn’t mind me calling him that. The “F” was worth the $2,000.00, I’m sure.
Mike Broughton: Definitely.
Shane Jacks: Congratulations, man. You smoked the other guys there and won that glue pulling competition. Just your thoughts on that, besides “I like $2,000.00.”
Mike Broughton: It was a great investment. It was the first time I ever used either one of your tools, the tabs or the hammer. The hammer was surprisingly very light. I was expecting it to be heavier. I’m used to using something real light, so the hammer was great. I was a little skeptical of the tabs because they were smooth. Then, when I used them, everybody else around me was, “Those tabs are awesome.” It was the first time I ever used them. When I used them, I was shocked. I actually went with a smaller tab that what I originally wanted to do because I was worried about the tabs pulling more than what I thought. I started off with a smaller tab, and I was, “These things are great.” Anyway, I keep the tabs small.
Keith Cosentino: Did you stick with one size or did you size up?
Mike Broughton: No. Actually, I went with the smaller tab and I gradually went up. I don’t know the exact sizes.
Keith Cosentino: You were under a little bit of pressure.
Mike Broughton: I pulled the center first and I did not let me glue set, just so I could get a feel for it at the last second. When I pulled the tabs, like I said, it pulled great. So, I staged up and went back down to the smallest tab. Then, I tapped the crown around everything. Then, I just had to move the tab around. I was done in no time.
Keith Cosentino: Did you finish under time?
Mike Broughton: Yes. I was done in the teens. I was “It can’t get any better.” There was some orange peel around it that was worrying me, so I ended up pulling the orange peel around the glue pull dent. After that, I was, “I can’t do anymore. I’m 22 minutes in, and I’m done.”
Keith Cosentino: That’s sweet.
Shane Jacks: Pulling orange peel with Keith’s tabs. That’s a new one. That is pretty awesome. I have a hard time pushing orange peel with rods, much less pulling.
Mike Broughton: I kid you not. It was orange peel.
Shane Jacks: Awesome.
Keith Cosentino: So, what pulling method did you use? Did you use the slide or mini lifter?
Mike Broughton: Slide. I don’t like using the lifter on the rails, just because of applying the pressure at those other two points.
Shane Jacks: I’m the same way, Mike.
Mike Broughton: But I noticed everybody else was using the lifter.
Keith Cosentino: Well, scoreboard.
Shane Jacks: That’s what I was thinking.
Keith Cosentino: What kind of glue did you use? Were you specific or did you just find somebody to hand you something?
Mike Broughton: Carl Stuckey actually let me use his light and his glue gun. I’m so used to using Worth Black Glue. So, I actually had Worth Black, so that’s what I was using.
Keith Cosentino: I haven’t used that glue before. I’ve used everything but. I don’t think I’ve ever used the Worth brand Black Glue. So, that’s what you use on a regular basis?
Mike Broughton: Yes. That’s what I’m used to seven days a week, every single week throughout the year. I just actually know how long to let that sit, so that’s what I use.
Keith Cosentino: What was your back-up plan, if my tabs didn’t work? Because you’d never used them before. Did you have a back-up plan or were you going all in?
Mike Broughton: No, I was all in.
Shane Jacks: He was gonna make it work. It was $1,000.00 or broke, baby.
Mike Broughton: It was all or nothing.
Keith Cosentino: And you’re using them now when you go back home.
Mike Broughton: I actually bought some for my guys.
Shane Jacks: Awesome.
Keith Cosentino: The time has come. The Black Plague Smooth Series Tabs are a reality. They are available for you now on BlackPlaguePDR.com. If you’ve been living under a rock, it is time to come out. We are making money out here with glue pulling, and we’re using the Smooth Series Tabs to do it. We are getting pulls out of these tabs that you cannot get from any tabs no matter the price. These things flat hook up. Strong snappy pulls every time. These tabs, along with the green glue that we also have on the site, are blowing people away. If you wanna be a part of the movement, get yourself over there and get some tabs into your box. BlackPlaguePDR.com or DeadRatTabs.com. Guys, the game has changed. Don’t get left behind. Stay on the cutting edge.
Keith Cosentino: Tell us about your biz. Are you a full-time hail guy?
Mike Broughton: Yes. We actually have a PDR shop that we do glass replacement and glass repair stuff out of too. It’s a small shop. Small town and everything, but it’s close to home. We have guys that go around to car lots doing recon work.
Keith Cosentino: how many guys are in your company?
Mike Broughton: Five employees, but during hail season, of course we subcontract many more.
Keith Cosentino: Do you just do the hail that’s local or do you guys travel for it?
Mike Broughton: No. Actually went to Texas for the first time this past year. We actually have a couple of accounts in Texas now. So, Texas. I worked in Tennessee, Virginia, South Carolina, North Carolina last year.
Shane Jacks: Stay out of South Carolina.
Mike Broughton: Say what?
Shane Jacks: Stay out of South Carolina.
Keith Cosentino: You’re in North Carolina, right, Mike?
Mike Broughton: Yes, sir. I’m a Carolina boy.
Keith Cosentino: Is there some kind of rivalry between the North and South?
Mike Broughton: I think there is now.
Shane Jacks: No rivalry. I’m too old to fight, man.
Mike Broughton: Shane’s already beaten me one time in a competition.
Keith Cosentino: Were you in it the same year that Shane won?
Mike Broughton: He got first. I got second.
Shane Jacks: I have been meaning to ask you. Was it you, Keith? No, it was Jared. I said, “I am 99 percent certain Mike was second place behind me.”
Mike Broughton: That’s it.
Shane Jacks: “Was that it? I’m pretty sure that’s who it was.” They are so close. What was your dent at that year?
Mike Broughton: That was two years ago, wasn’t it? I think I was top right on the car closest to the wall.
Shane Jacks: On the right front door?
Mike Broughton: I wanna say it was.
Shane Jacks: I’m 99 percent certain my dent was right behind yours. I was on the right front door right in front of the door handle.
Mike Broughton: When I saw yours finish, I told everybody you won. I did.
Keith Cosentino: I did too, Mike.
Shane Jacks: I was grading mine by yours. I was, “Holy crap.” We’re not gonna spend but another 30 seconds on this because I don’t wanna talk about it anymore. We were only five guys in. Mike had done his first thing in the morning, and I was doing mine first thing in the morning right after him. I was, “Holy crap. There’s 70 more dents to go. If I’ve gotta get it better than that one, what are the chances are somebody’s not gonna be any better than this?” I chose mine by yours, and I got it very slightly better than yours. I was, “Okay, I’m done. I can’t do any better than this.” Luckily, yours was the one right in front of mine and you had gone before me.
Mike Broughton: You did good. When you were done, I told everybody you just won.
Keith Cosentino: He wasn’t convinced, Mike, but I said the same thing when I saw that.
Shane Jacks: You didn’t tell me that. There was one guy that you said, “I don’t know. His dent’s better than yours.” That dude placed tenth. I was, “Holy crap. I didn’t even place.” I didn’t look at dents. After I did it, I didn’t’ even go back and look at them. I was, “Oh, well.”
Keith Cosentino: Now that you know me a couple years better, you know I like to mess around with you a little bit.
Shane Jacks: Peckerhead, man. When they get down to No. 3 and No. 2, they announce No. 2, and I’m, “I’m not even close because the guy that placed tenth Keith said was better than mine.” They announced No. 2, and Keith is sitting about three people down from me on the same row. His head pops forward and he said, “Go get your trophy, big boy.” “What?”
Mike Broughton: That’s awesome.
Shane Jacks: He’s a jerk.
Keith Cosentino: I was just made because I couldn’t place.
Shane Jacks: Anyway, off of that. That’s cool, Mike. We’re not glad that you could take our $2,000.00.
Keith Cosentino: I’m glad.
Shane Jacks: I’m glad that you won your $2,000.00.
Mike Broughton: I appreciate it.
Shane Jacks: Yes, sir. Using our products to do that is pretty awesome.
Keith Cosentino: I just had to skip having my yacht cleaned this week. That’s it. Didn’t make a big difference. It’s not a big deal to me either.
Shane Jacks: You must have a tony yacht, if you have $168.00 worth of cleaning to go on that thing for a week.
Keith Cosentino: It’s $1,000.00.
Shane Jacks: Duh. I’m sorry.
Keith Cosentino: You’re talking about the other competition where I awarded $168.00 in cash to somebody.
Shane Jacks: I’m talking about the tabs. Sorry about that.
Mike Broughton: That was $168.00 to clean the dinghy.
Shane Jacks: I had my numbers confused. It’s earlyish.
Keith Cosentino: So, Mike, how many years have you been in the business?
Mike Broughton: Since 1999. I’ve been in the industry since 1997, but PDR since 1999.
Keith Cosentino: Who trained you? Where did you start?
Mike Broughton: Actually, I went to California to Ding King.
Keith Cosentino: No kidding.
Mike Broughton: When I got back, I still couldn’t fix a dent. I actually had to practice and practice like everybody else. It’s nothing you can learn in two weeks. Over about 2 or 3 months at a time, I started to see what I was supposed to see. Then, I gradually progressed. The first car I even worked on, I worked on for eight hours, and I charged the man $40.00. When I was done, it wasn’t worth paying me. I told the man, “I can’t take your money.” He said, “You’re gonna sit here all day in the hot sun for $40.00. You need it more than I do.”
Shane Jacks: Pity money for eight hours to making $2,000.00 in 17 minutes. That’s not too bad.
Mike Broughton: He never called back.
Shane Jacks: If he could see you now.
Mike Broughton: Now, I’ve gone from making $40.00 in eight hours to 22 minutes and making $2,000.00.
Keith Cosentino: And a trophy.
Mike Broughton: And a trophy. And a light battery charger slide hammer.
Shane Jacks: And getting on the most popular PDR podcast with two guys named Keith and Shane.
Mike Broughton: I expected your green room to be bigger.
Shane Jacks: The green room is kind of small. We’re doing some additions.
Mike Broughton: When you go to TV, it gets bigger?
Shane Jacks: With Keith and his mansion out there, he’s hoarding all the money.
Keith Cosentino: I think the reason they started calling it the green room was because the Twinkies were getting moldy.
Mike Broughton: Your intern keeps offering them to me.
Keith Cosentino: Somebody’s gotta eat them. They gotta go from the green room to the clean room. So, you had no mentor. You were learning by yourself, teaching yourself.
Mike Broughton: I got the basics down. After that, I did everything on my own. My whole business is trial and error.
Keith Cosentino: That’s pretty impressive, Mike. I started in a very similar fashion. I had a Ding King video and tools. I didn’t even go there, and I’m in the same state. I just had the video, which was a VHS tape, for those of you young technicians who’ve never even seen one before. I had the VHS tape. It said, “Drag the tool to the center of the dent. Apply pressure and remove the dent.” “This seems easy enough. I should be able to nail this thing.” Just like you, I practiced and practiced and I got better, but I was not able to fix a dent. I stopped cracking paint and knew when I was in the dent and not out of it, but I couldn’t fix them.
I got hired by a local company and they trained me. I don’t know if I would have gotten it like you got it by yourself. That’s impressive to me. There’s a few guys in the industry who got a little knowledge dumped on their plate and they taught themselves the rest. I’ve always assumed those guys could be better with a mentor, but you’re proving me wrong right here. You brought it all the way to the top. At what point did you realize that there’s a community out there, there’s new tools? When did you go from training mill to high level?
Mike Broughton: I pretty much did everything on my own. No networking nothing, up until several years ago. The first year I went to the Mobile Tech Expo was the first time I ever thought about networking with other companies and met several people. I met Manny Quintero there, a great guy. Manny de-dents. I met a lot of good people. Andrew Kinsey. I know I’m forgetting a lot of people. Myke Toledo. That was the first time I watched a lot of Myke Toledo’s videos leading up to the Mobile Tech Expo.
When we went down there, I competed that year and placed fifth. That was due to a discrepancy guy damaged the dent after I’d already worked on it, but they still gave me credit for it and I still got fifth. That was the first time I started networking with other people and actually started working with other companies’ right after that.
Keith Cosentino: As far as the competition goes, you’ve consistently been at the top. You’re expecting to be up there every time.
Mike Broughton: Not last year and this year.
Keith Cosentino: Competition is really stiff though. You literally make one bad push and it’s over.
Mike Broughton: That’s right.
Keith Cosentino: So, you own the company? You’ve got several guys working for you?
Mike Broughton: Yes. I’m 100 percent owner.
Keith Cosentino: Do you train them all from scratch or do you bring them on as techs?
Mike Broughton: I do teach. The last guy I just taught, he came in from Texas. He spent several weeks up here. When they’re done, I have them fixing softball size dents, creases. We’re fixing some big stuff after two weeks. There’s a couple other tools I have at the shop that help me teach other people.
Keith Cosentino: Special stuff or you wanna tell us about that?
Mike Broughton: Well, it’s more visual stuff. It’s nothing I can show you or explain to you. You have to come out and see it. It’s visual exercises to make them see where the tool is.
Keith Cosentino: I am intrigued now.
Mike Broughton: Training guys is very difficult.
Shane Jacks: Yes, it is.
Keith Cosentino: What you do is one thing, but being able to put that in someone else’s mind and get them to do it is a whole different ball game.
Mike Broughton: If you notice, there’s some people that are the line guys and some people that are fog line guys. It’s hard for one to do the other. Well, when you go to school, then if you are a line guy and you go to a fog line school, then you’re probably not gonna get it. Then, vice versa. Depending on who you are, if you can’t see a dent, you can’t fix a dent.
Keith Cosentino: That’s true.
Mike Broughton: Everybody sees things differently. If t’s harder for you to see shadows and it’s better for you to see straight lines, you just gotta figure out what type of person they are. We do visual exercises to find out who they are.
Keith Cosentino: So, you’re saying a technician inherently sees better in lines or fog.
Mike Broughton: Yes. One of them. If you notice, some people go to a school and they never learn, but they go to a different school and they learn.
Keith Cosentino: That’s true.
Shane Jacks: Another trainer out there actually published an article on that, how people’s brains register what they’re seeing differently, analog or digital and it depends on which on you are as to which method is going to work better for you. I’ve often wondered if that’s the case or is it a bunch of crap. Mike’s solidifying that theory here, I guess you would say. Let me ask you this. This is the way I was. I learned with lines. Then, transferred to fog. So, I can read both and one is better than the other. Were you the same way? Or were you fog all the way or stripe all the way?
Mike Broughton: Fog all the way.
Shane Jacks: From the get-go?
Mike Broughton: Yes. I had to learn how to do lines later.
Shane Jacks: I learned with lines. Then, when this fog thing came out, it took me two weeks to figure out. Then, it was “Holy crap. I’m a better dent guy.” I can use either one and I would rather use lines in certain situations. I was just curious, since you train people both ways, if you had actually done both ways and if that was your progression.
Mike Broughton: I personally prefer the fog all the way.
Keith Cosentino: So, what you’re saying, Mike, is it’s mostly South Carolina guys that go both ways.
Mike Broughton: That’s right. We’re straight in North Carolina.
Shane Jacks: This is coming from a NorCal boy here.
Keith Cosentino: It’s more country up here than you think.
Shane Jacks: I hear you.
Mike Broughton: I hear y’all. I got you. I see.
Keith Cosentino: I couldn’t fix a dent in lines, if it had money on the table. I can see it. I like to say that the lines don’t lie. They’ll show you everything, but I can’t fix it. I can do a great repair on a fog board, but my eyes go cross-eyed with lines. I don’t understand how you get that last little bit of detail because you’re either in or out of the lines.
Shane Jacks: It’s called sandpaper.
Keith Cosentino: Like taking out a piece of orange peel in a line board. In a fog board, I can see it. In a line board, you’re either in or out of it.
Shane Jacks: The lines are moving so quickly when you touch it, so it’s really a lot different.
Keith Cosentino: There’s a lot going on. There’s no replacement for throwing that line board up when you’re done, if you wanna see if it’s really flat. That thing will tell you.
Shane Jacks: There’s no replacement for pulling it out of the bright sunlight too.
Keith Cosentino: Well, there is. Just whack your face with a flyswatter. It’s about the same.
Mike Broughton: Park it with a glare on it, so they can’t see it.
Shane Jacks: Right in the sun. “That looks awesome.”
Keith Cosentino: the man that trained me used to say that all the time. “Put it in the sun out there.” Why don’t we just fix it?
Mike Broughton: How many customers do you have that say the sun will draw the dent out?
Keith Cosentino: There’s less nonsense here in California than there is in other places. I don’t hear a lot of that stuff, but I’ve heard all those stories. Put it in the sun. Most of those hail dents will pop out. That’s what I’ve heard a lot.
Mike Broughton: They say, “I’ll just put it in the sun and take it out.” I hear that.
Shane Jacks: No way. I haven’t heard that one. That is pretty awesome.
Mike Broughton: It’s crazy.
Shane Jacks: I had a guy at a Verizon store below Atlanta a few years back. 2009, I think they had a storm down there. I went in to get something for my phone or get a new phone. He asked me why I was down there, and I told him I was doing hail damage repair. He said, “I’m from the Midwest. I’m from Kansas. You can just heat the panel up and put dry ice on it and it will pop it out.” I just grinned and said, “That’s a pretty common misconception.” He said, “I’ve done it.” All right, man.
Mike Broughton: That’s funny.
Keith Cosentino: Same guy will probably tell, “Just drive it to the bar. Spend the say in there. When you come out, dents are gone.” You may not be able to see them, but I don’t know if they’re gone though.
Mike Broughton: After five shots.
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Mike, the Expo itself. I know one thing that’s special is you won the Glue Pull Olympics and $2,000.00. Keith and I didn’t get to look around a whole bunch at all. So, we missed the entire show. We brought you on here to brag about our products because you’ve got our cash in your pocket and, most of all, honestly, to tell us a little bit about the show. Anything unique you saw tool-wise? Let’s start there. Unless you wanna start somewhere else, Keith. You cool with that?
Keith Cosentino: Let’s talk about it. I’ve been asking all the guys who came to the booth, “What did you buy? What should I go look at, if I get some time?”
Mike Broughton: Probably the top two best investment I made was the Black Plague Glue Tabs and the jackhammer.
Shane Jacks: It was great investment. The return was absolutely awesome.
Keith Cosentino: We have to note though that we did not give him the products. He had to buy them.
Shane Jacks: No. He had to buy them.
Mike Broughton: That was a good investment. The Moonlight was interesting. Manny told me about the Moonlight. When we got there, the guy competed with the Moonlight and we watched him use it on the side panels and stuff. We used it on the hood they had to display. That was pretty interesting.
Keith Cosentino: I should have talked to him before he started. I would have been able to tell him, if he could win with that, it probably would have made more of an impact.
Mike Broughton: That would have been huge.
Keith Cosentino: I wasn’t in his corner, but I would have told him, “You should try to win instead of just competing. You should try to win it.”
Mike Broughton: He should have had Shane Jacks use it.
Keith Cosentino: He was right behind our booth, and I really wanted to see it too.
Shane Jacks: We literally could not step around the curtain for two minutes.
Mike Broughton: When I went up there and stood in line, I was trying to get y’all’s attention. They were waiting for me to glue pull, but I had to buy the hammer and the tabs first. I was standing in line forever.
Keith Cosentino: You sure were. What did you think about that Moonlight?
Mike Broughton: It was cool. It was very interesting. I do the same thing with two lights. For me, it’s easier to pack up two lights. Then, I can use them to go down the side of the car. I like the concept as far as the top panels and stuff, but for me, it’s not practical just because of the curve in it, the bend in it, it’s gonna take up more room in my truck.
Keith Cosentino: Even when it’s just standing around the shop all the time?
Mike Broughton: If it’s sitting in the shop, that’s one thing. When I’m on the road, it’s more room for me to pack up. It needs to be on a hinge or something.
Keith Cosentino: A couple of guys have said that. “It’s great, but I’m used to packing up long, straight things. This is a big curved thing.”
Mike Broughton: That’s the first time I’ve ever seen the HotBox. That was interesting.
Keith Cosentino: Did you fool with it?
Mike Broughton: Yes. I think they had a couple of them floating around. We ended up damaging the paint with the first one that I used. We didn’t know what we were doing. We just put it on there and pushed a button. When we heard it beep, we were still holding it on there. We were supposed to let go of the button when it beeped at one place and another guy told me when it beeps that it releases itself. Don’t worry about releasing the button. One guy had it working. We took a dent out and it was pretty cool, but the other one, we just burned paint.
Keith Cosentino: So, being a guy with a handful of technicians and a shop, you’re the kind of guy who could benefit from that. Did you consider buying one?
Mike Broughton: Yes. I thought about it, but I think the one we looked at was $3,500.00.
Keith Cosentino: Yes, they are something like that.
Mike Broughton: I don’t even know if that was a show special.
Keith Cosentino: I’ve heard numbers from $2,000.00 and $3,500.00. So, it sounds like there’s a little negotiating you can do to get that thing. I don’t know. For $2,000.00, it does a little bit. I don’t know if it does enough. You know what I thought would be useful? It’s not actually for fixing dents, but for glue pulling. Sometimes your panel’s a little cold. If you had that thing going the whole time, it’s hot right now, and by the time you get another tab to pull it, it’s hot enough to pull. I think that would be beneficial. I’m not gonna pay $3,000.00 for that.
Mike Broughton: That’s a good point. When you guys glue pull, do you sometimes heat up the metal to get the moisture off?
Keith Cosentino: Not for the moisture, but I heat it for the temperature.
Shane Jacks: I do it for the moisture, Mike.
Mike Broughton: That’s the way I do it. I was explaining to somebody else that when you heat the metal with a torch, you can actually see the moisture start to go away from the dent. When you try to stick tape to anything that’s wet, it’s not gonna stick. So, when you try to stick glue to something that’s got moisture on it, it’s not gonna stick. So, I use the heat to get rid of the moisture.
Shane Jacks: He said “torch,” Keith.
Mike Broughton: I use a torch.
Shane Jacks: So do I, my brother. Keith is, “You’re an idiot.”
Mike Broughton: You gotta be quick.
Keith Cosentino: None of my tools have disclaimers. “You can use this, but you’ve gotta be good with it or you’re gonna ruin the whole car, burn it down and start a fire.”
Shane Jacks: A heat gun can burn paint too, homeboy.
Keith Cosentino: It sure can. It’s a lot more humid where you guys are than where I am. That might have something to do with it. You’ve always got moisture just hanging around the air all the time. We don’t really have that here. I did have a car early in the morning with dew on it the other day, and I had to clean it all off for a hail estimate. Shane was talking about using alcohol to help evaporate all the water. For some reason, I could not find my squeegee, which is what I use to get all the water off the car. So, all I had was a stupid microfiber towels. Everybody knows they won’t stick to water. You can put them under water and pull them back out and they’re dry again. All you’re doing is smearing water all over the place. It’s the most annoying thing ever. It’s almost like those trick birthday candles.
I thought about Shane’s idea and I got out my alcohol and sprayed this thing down. I’ll be darn, if I didn’t spray it all down with alcohol and one swipe, and the alcohol evaporated everything and it was dry as a bone. That technique actually worked, Shane. I prep every dent I pull with alcohol anyway. I might be doing the same thing that y’all are doing with the torch just with alcohol.
Shane Jacks: My theory there, Mike, was using alcohol doesn’t only remove contaminants and clean, but it also evaporates the water off. I’ve had instances where it’s cold here and it’s warm inside the shop. I hit it with alcohol and I do the entire rail. Twenty minutes later, I move up on the rail and nothing’s sticking, and I have to do it again. I’m theorizing that the alcohol is helping evaporate the water, kind of like what our torch method does.
When it’s really bad, you have to use the torch because the difference in temperature between the panel and the ambient air is so great. Condensation is building on it immediately that you can’t even see. Mike, you know. When you’re using that torch, it feels dry and there’s no water on there. You hit it and the condensation vanishes. That’s my theory on alcohol. It’s not only to clean, but it also helps evaporate. I thought about that when I was putting drops in your ear to get the water out. That’s nothing but alcohol and that evaporates water.
Mike Broughton: Especially in the morning and nighttime. That’s when there’s the most moisture around here. I actually had that idea about alcohol last month. I went to Puerto Rico to visit Manny. I walked into the ocean with my phone. I come out and Manny’s wife, Evie, went to put it in rice. When I got back to the house, we end up taking the phone, and I had the bright idea of submerging it in alcohol because it’s still gonna have moisture on the inside. It’s already done anyway. We submerged it in alcohol. Then, probably an hour later when we took it out, the plastic backing started melting. Then, I shoved it into rice. I fried it.
Shane Jacks: I was looking for a feel-good story here.
Mike Broughton: No happy ending.
Keith Cosentino: Alcohol didn’t work. Let’s put it in acetone.
Mike Broughton: I had the same theory that it would get rid of the water on the inside, but no. I fucked it up.
Shane Jacks: What else did you see out there that was interesting, besides the people walking around?
Mike Broughton: I think it was Pro PDR that had the hood stand that collapsed with the wheels folded in.
Shane Jacks: You tell us, man. We saw nothing.
Mike Broughton: I think Pro PDR Solutions had the stand. I actually have their stand, but my wheels don’t fold up. You have to actually fold is sideways and it won’t fit in a bag. Now, they have it where it will fold up and go inside a tool bag. That was pretty cool.
Keith Cosentino: Is it the kind that folds like a clamshell or accordions up?
Mike Broughton: I guess it’s like the accordion. It’s gonna come in and be long and narrow.
Keith Cosentino: Like an Easy-Up.
Mike Broughton: Yes. Then, the retractable Harrell lever. I ended up purchasing that. That was pretty cool. I can’t remember the dent company that has it though.
Shane Jacks: Explain that.
Mike Broughton: It’s a nylon ball. You have a button you can push on the end of it that releases the nylon strap to come down. It will lock into place, and it has different settings where you can adjust it to go up and down. I liked that. That was pretty cool.
Keith Cosentino: Was that Dent Technologies, the same guys as the Moonlight?
Mike Broughton: I didn’t see theirs, if they had one.
Keith Cosentino: They had a strap of some type.
Mike Broughton: No, it was another company. I can’t remember the name of it. That’s pretty much everything new that I saw. I had a beer in my hand the whole time.
Shane Jacks: One of my buddies came by and he had an attachment for a drill. It was a hook and loop fastener cutting buff pads, polish pads, and it turned a regular drill into a DA, an orbital type. Does it work? I don’t know. I have yet to talk to him. It may work for a few days. The packaging looked like something that came out of Harbor Freight, so we will see what happens on that thing. The idea was pretty cool. It may be last year’s glue pot. I don’t know. We shall see.
Keith Cosentino: The poor glue pot.
Mike Broughton: Have you seen the new IntelliDent light that runs on the DeWalt battery?
Keith Cosentino: Elim A Dent.
Mike Broughton: Elim A Dent. It runs on the 20-volt DeWalt battery.
Keith Cosentino: I’ve seen it online. I didn’t get a chance to see it in person.
Mike Broughton: That’s actually one of the things I won. That’s awesome.
Keith Cosentino: Did you already have a DeWalt set-up at home?
Mike Broughton: Yes. Every drill in my shop, in my truck, in my home is DeWalt, so it worked out perfectly.
Keith Cosentino: I’m the opposite, but everything’s Makita for me. His original one with the Makita battery was a perfect fit for me.
Shane Jacks: I’m a Milwaukee guy.
Mike Broughton: Milwaukee?
Shane Jacks: Yes.
Keith Cosentino: That’s like Ryobi?
Shane Jacks: Milwaukee? Keep laughing.
Keith Cosentino: I’ve got Japanese precision. I don’t know what you’re messing with.
Shane Jacks: They’re the best out there. Milwaukee, homeboy.
Keith Cosentino: Where is that? Kansas?
Shane Jacks: If it’s anywhere you want it to be, if it’s the best.
Mike Broughton: For the right money.
Keith Cosentino: I’m sure all this stuff is made in the same factory, all three of them. We all have our preferences. Mike likes stuff that’s yellow. I like white, and you like red.
Shane Jacks: I think DeWalt is made by Black and Decker. I’m 99 percent sure they’re owned by Black and Decker.
Mike Broughton: I know they were at one time, but I don’t know if they still are. You’re right.
Shane Jacks: They’re probably all made in the same factory.
Mike Broughton: Just packaged differently.
Keith Cosentino: Those lights are pretty cool. I saw some guys selling dent tape specifically for PDR.
Mike Broughton: I saw that. Plastic.
Keith Cosentino: Is it the plastic? I was curious what would make them come to a tradeshow booth with one product, but I didn’t get a chance to see it. Did you buy any or fool with it?
Mike Broughton: I thought it was a free sample, so I went over there to grab one, and he told me I owed him $20.00. I gave it back to him. I didn’t have cash.
Shane Jacks: That is awesome. That’s my next strategy. I’m just gonna grab one and look at the guy and start to walk away. If he says something, I’ll just put it back.
Mike Broughton: Well, it looked like a display of free stuff. Everybody was picking one up. I thought I could pick one up too.
Keith Cosentino: You didn’t take any dent tape home, right?
Mike Broughton: No, I didn’t take any home.
Keith Cosentino: It could be the best tape in the world, but because he wanted your $20.00, you’re never gonna be a customer. You could have taken the roll home and used it and figured out you couldn’t even work without the dent tape now and you would have bought 500 more rolls from him. Instead, he wanted $20.00 and he lost a potential customer.
Mike Broughton: I didn’t have any cash on me until after the competition.
Shane Jacks: He was gone by then.
Keith Cosentino: That being said, I didn’t give any glue tabs away.
Mike Broughton: No free samples?
Keith Cosentino: No. A couple of guys talked me out of a tab or two here or there.
Mike Broughton: Wait a minute. We could have negotiated?
Keith Cosentino: You can negotiate anything, Mike. I could have negotiated that prize with you. “I’ll tell you what. I’ll give you $500.00 and I won’t just leave here.”
Are you trying to stay on the cutting edge of paintless dent removal when it comes to your tools? If so, you need to make sure you have two things in your arsenal. One is Shane Jacks Jackhammer Blending Hammer. Find it at BlendingHammerPDR.com. If you wanna learn blending, we’ve got an awesome tutorial to go along with the hammer right there on the site. You’re gonna love it. You’re gonna learn something and you’re gonna get better and make money.
In addition to the hammer, if you are doing any glue pulling, you need to have the Black Plague Crease Tabs. It’s a six-piece, crease pulling set. The two largest are absolute monsters. They are gonna pull out collision damage like nothing else you’ve got available, and the smaller sizes are gonna be for the normal, everyday kind of door edges and minor collision dents and a dog leg in the bottom of a door. I’m telling you guys it is gonna change the way you do your repairs when you have the cutting edge tools. These are two of them: BlackPlaguePDR.com, BlendingHammerPDR.com. Check out the sites, guys. Bring yourselves into the 21st century.
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That show was so big. There were so many things. It really is a bummer that we didn’t get to walk around, but we had a great time meeting with the guys that came and talked to us. I was telling Shane that I wish there was a time for the vendors to go around and talk to the other vendors, just to see what’s going on in the show for an hour or two before they open it because we’re really in the dark. I think they could do that better.
We did a little bit better this year with the Dent Olympics and talking to the guys. Shane had a camera in the hallway afterwards and we were talking to a few of the guys who did well and asked them what kind of tools they used and what their strategy was. Previously, that has not been part of it. It’s almost been an afterthought. Everybody’s watching the competition, but when they do the awards, there’s less than 100 people there or about 100 people competed to the show of thousands. They say, “You won. You did great. Here’s your prize.” And that’s it. We all wanna know how they did so well. What tool? When you placed second, what did you use?
Mike Broughton: I used tools from PDR Finesse. I borrowed from PDR Finesse and Ultra.
Keith Cosentino: You went back and forth with both of them?
Mike Broughton: Yes. I can’t remember exactly what tool is, was.
Keith Cosentino: I’m getting that from you, Mike. You’re a big picture guy. “I don’t know, man. This light’s pretty cool. I use the stuff, man.” If you’ve ever known anybody who’s been around motorcycles, a lot of guys like to go to the racetrack with them. If you’re not that good, you spend all the time worrying about whether you have the best suspension and braking and tire pressure and compounds. The riders who are really good, they’re never that in love with the bike. You just put them on something and they go amazingly fast, faster than anybody and they don’t even know what they’re riding half the time or what they’re on. They just get on and go because that’s what they do. It’s the guys who are halfway decent who are worried about every last little thing. “I think I got the torque settings wrong on this thing. That’s why the thing is squirrely.”
Mike Broughton: Overthinking it.
Shane Jacks: It’s not my lack of skill, for sure.
Keith Cosentino: No, it can’t be. “My GPS is not linked up, man. That’s why I couldn’t see my lap times.” When you got it, you say, “I don’t know. Just put something in my hand.” The second or third place guy pushed with some old Dent Wizard tool.
Shane Jacks: Yes, the Ford tool.
Keith Cosentino: What does that look like? I’ve never seen one.
Shane Jacks: I have no idea. It could be in the shape of the letter “Z” for all I know because I’ve never seen one.
Keith Cosentino: We might be the only three guys online at the same time that did not start at Dent Wizard.
Shane Jacks: You’re right. The law of averages says that you’re probably correct.
Keith Cosentino: The guy that owned the company that I started at was an ex-Wizard. That’s as close as I could get. Shane, you’re straight from Germany. Mike, you’re straight from Cali. I wonder if those Dent King guys were Dent Wizard at one point. Did you meet the owner when you were out there?
Mike Broughton: I think his name’s Todd Sudeck. Is that right?
Keith Cosentino: Yes, that’s right.
Mike Broughton: I was in constant communication with his wife.
Keith Cosentino: I don’t wanna hear the rest of that story.
Mike Broughton: Nothing like that. She was the one I spoke to on the phone. When I went out there, she was the one that met with me.
Keith Cosentino: This story stops right there, right?
Mike Broughton: That’s it.
Keith Cosentino: That’s what I like to hear.
Mike Broughton: I was a good boy. She was hot though.
Keith Cosentino: Okay, here it comes.
Shane Jacks: You knew it was coming. It was way too long of a pause there.
Mike Broughton: That’s all I’m gonna say.
Keith Cosentino: We’re sorry, Todd. You went out to California for your training. Thanks for coming on the show, man. I know at first you were thinking, “I don’t know. You guys are a little strange, and you’ve got this weird radio show.” But we turned you around and got you on the show. We appreciate you coming on.
Mike Broughton: I enjoyed it. I appreciate it.
Shane Jacks: Thanks a bunch.
Mike Broughton: I’d like to thank you guys for the tabs and hammer. Let me send out thanks to Carl Stuckey for using his light glue gun and Ray Stalnaker for letting me use his slide hammer with PDR gear.
Keith Cosentino: That’s super cool. What light did you use of Carl’s? Did you use that prototype that he had there or did you use his old standby? You don’t know.
Shane Jacks: He has no idea. “It had a switch on it.”
Mike Broughton: I should know this, but I don’t.
Keith Cosentino: Did it have an orange cover around the battery?
Shane Jacks: He doesn’t know that either.
Mike Broughton: No.
Keith Cosentino: He knows something.
Mike Broughton: I don’t remember seeing orange.
Keith Cosentino: Carl had a prototype new light there. We should probably have him on the show to talk about it because I don’t know many facts about it, except that he showed it to me. If you have new tools, they gather everybody in the hall and you come out and bring your new tools and show them what’s new at the show and have them come see you at the booth to see more about them.
Carl was right there with me getting ready to talk about his new light. He took this thing, raised it over his head and threw it on the ground. He said, “Bulletproof,” and smashed it on the ground. He’s got the batteries in line with the lock line. He’s got a plastic cover around it. That was a prototype, 3-D printed piece of plastic around the battery. I thought that was pretty cool. Previously, the battery themselves, even though they’re in a plastic case, were a little more exposed. He’s got a cover over the battery. He had a plastic, one-piece housing. It looked really clean and simple and much improved over his previous cordless lights that had a lot of external wiring.
This thing’s all cleaned up and everything’s inside now. I was excited to see a little more with it and even try to use it. We keep complaining, but we had all hands on deck, so we didn’t get to see all that stuff. I wanted to see more about that light. It sounds like that’s not the one you used. It sounds like you used one of his standard lights that have been working for years and years. Do you use those back home too, Mike?
Mike Broughton: Yes. He probably didn’t trust me with his prototype. He was probably, “Here. Use this one.”
Keith Cosentino: Let me ask you one question before we split that I was gonna ask you and I forgot. Let’s talk a little bit about that repair because I think a lot of guys wanna know, if you’re gonna beat everybody in the world, let’s talk a little bit about your strategy. You’re gonna pick a tab that’s what size of the dent? Half of it, all of it, something different?
Mike Broughton: I’d say, probably close to half. It’s in the center of the dent. I don’t want a tab that’s gonna be the exact diameter of the dent. I want something that’s gonna bring out the center. When you’re using your tool, you’re not using something the size of the dent to push it out. You’re using something to bring up the center. I basically do my glue pulling the same way I would a dent rod. Bring up the center and finesse everything with the smaller glue tab.
Keith Cosentino: So, when you start hitting it with a slide hammer, you’re starting real easy and gradually and increasing the pressure or are you one of the guys that just grip it and rip it?
Mike Broughton: I’m a grip it and rip it. But I know my glue. I don’t like to change my glue because I know exactly how long it takes. If you wait an extra ten seconds, that’s gonna make a difference as far as how your glue’s gonna adhere to it. If you know your glue and you’re used to it, then I’d say, just stick with it. Instead of going and switching to a different glue because it’s got moisture in the air, use the torch,
Keith Cosentino: That’s a great point you bring up. Since I’m in the business of selling tabs and glue, guys ask me, “What glue’s good for this and that?” They’re all hot glues. Every single one of them, no matter what compound it is, is gonna work in a 25 to 30 degree temperature range. None of them are gonna work when it’s 55 degrees. None of them are gonna work when it’s 105 degrees. It doesn’t matter what they’re made out of. You gotta make the conditions meet the glue, not vice versa, just like you’re saying.
Mike Broughton: Exactly.
Keith Cosentino: You’re getting a slide hammer and you’re going right after that thing, just yanking on it. When I pull something with a slide hammer, I start off light. I wanna see what’s moving and get more aggressive, if I need to.
Mike Broughton: I’ll literally put the glue on, touch the dent and then grab the hammer and go ahead and pull it right then, if I do not want it to pull hard. The glue hasn’t hardened at all. It’s gonna be like pulling off tape sometimes. I know how long it takes for the glue to set, so I stick with one glue. I go ahead and pull it. I know exactly what I want it to do.
Keith Cosentino: Shane, you pull the same way with your slide hammer?
Shane Jacks: Rip and rip. It must be a Carolina thing.
Mike Broughton: It is.
Shane Jacks: With the size of the tab and the glue, like Mike is saying, you get accustomed to it. I’ve toned it down a little bit because there were times where I was pulling these freaking insane mountains, depending on where it is, and having to knock them down. With having skills with a hammer and being comfortable knocking down, if I’m a little higher than I need to be, I can just be lazy and lean against this car and knock it down quicker than I can pull three or more times. You know what I’m saying? The payoff to me is a little greater.
Now, with these new tabs, especially these things Keith has out, it’s become a little more precise, and I don’t have to pull these mountains anymore. There’s a lot more consistency. That’s something you don’t understand yet, Mike, with his tabs, I wouldn’t guess. One of the big problems with tabs for me is consistency. This tab will work 75 percent of the time, but when it won’t hook up, it just won’t freaking hook up. I can name a lot of tabs. These tabs of Keith’s, it is very rare that they don’t hook up. You just haven’t had time with them yet. You will have enough time where you’ll understand that. They’re so freaking consistent.
Mike Broughton: I believe that. I actually went through and looked at some of your podcasts. There was a YouTube clip of Keith using his tabs on the glass, I think it was. Then, you were showing the back side of the tab and how it laid down evenly. I was impressed with that clip when I saw it. If I’d seen that before the Expo, I’d have already bought your tabs before then.
Keith Cosentino: I’m glad you told me that. That video opened a lot of eyes, mine included. That was the first time I saw it when I did that video. I didn’t do it myself and make a video. I thought, “I’m gonna show what’s going on behind here.” It’s something we don’t ever see. We just smash them down on the car. You don’t know what’s going on under there. Once you can see what’s going on and how consistent that glue is underneath the tab, all of a sudden, it’s “That makes perfect sense now.” I understand why it’s flat, but previously everybody was, “I don’t know, man. Smooth? It’s not gonna hook up.”
Mike Broughton: That was probably the biggest thing when I went back and looked at your tabs and did some research on it. That impressed me a lot.
Keith Cosentino: If you guys wanna see that video that he’s talking about, head over to BlackPlaguePDR.com or DeadRatTabs.com and click on the Smooth Series Tabs. There’s a link there to watch and video, and you can see what we’re talking about. Well, Mike, thanks for coming and sharing all your knowledge and experience about glue pulling. I know guys are gonna want to reach out to you, but you’re too busy making money and not in the business to train. You guys have questions for Mike, send them to us, and we’ll see if we can get them to him. He’s up on the throne.
Mike Broughton: That’s right. No more Twinkies. I appreciate it. Thanks for everything.
Shane Jacks: Yes, sir, Mike. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for competing and taking our cash.
Mike Broughton: Thank you for putting it up.
Shane Jacks: Yes, sir.
Keith Cosentino: All right, Mike. Have a good one.
Shane Jacks: Have a good one, Mike.
Mike Broughton: You too. Bye.
Keith Cosentino: So, Shane, our tool review today is on what?
Shane Jacks: Keith, I wanna review the tool we were talking about earlier in the podcast, the depth gauge that you’ve come out with. Although it’s not out yet, honestly, it’s out enough. There’s buzz.
Keith Cosentino: I entered into production, so all the bases are being made. The gauges are on their way to me. Everything’s coming together. So, fingers crosses, in two or three weeks, I should be able to start cranking them out. I’m trying to source a real nice case to keep it in, so it doesn’t get bounced around.
Shane Jacks: That’s pretty awesome. The reason I wanna review that thing is, it’s a techy nerdy thing when you look at it from the outside at the very beginning. I bet I spoke to 100 different techs who walked up to the hood and grabbed it. “What is this?” So, I started explaining it to them. When I started explaining at the very beginning, “It’s a depth gauge and we’re using it to measure the depth of dents,” they’re looking at me like “You’re an idiot. You’re a geek.” Most of them would be, “Why do you wanna know that?”
The ultimate goal, I believe, with Keith would be two-fold. For me, the ultimate goal is two-fold. Three-fold, actually. No. 1 is trying to figure out what depth is stretched and what depth are you going to start approaching oil canning? I know that depth is gonna vary depending on the diameter of the dent and the sharpness of the impact. I understand that, but we can come up with some basic guidelines. That’s secondary for me. One big one for me would be using this thing to justify more money from insurance companies on hail. That is a big deal. Even with customers, we’re gonna have to move the decimal point over a couple of places and go from millimeters to micrometers. We have to possibly move that over, but you could redline this thing.
These Dent Olympic dents, like we said earlier on the show, were .85, .89, so move the decimal point over and it’s an 8.9 dent. That’s pretty bad. Your No. 8s and No. 9s are gonna be pretty deep dents, and you can show this to customers. You can show a hard number to a customer or an insurance adjuster, and you tell the insurance adjuster that anything over a three is over-deep, stretched, instead of over-size. If we get anything over a five, then you and I are gonna have a talk about how I’m the only viable option for this repair. That is the ultimate goal for me.
No. 3 is I wanna measure deviations in orange peel slash when you pimple the paint up a little bit to cut and buff. I’m looking at a .89 depth dent and this thing looks horribly deep, right, Keith? It looks deep. It looks stretched. It’s .89 millimeters. A millimeter is a really tiny amount, so deviation in orange peel when you pimple up something slightly and people are really scared of sanding and polishing, I wanna know what that deviation is and the deviation is way less than the thickness of the clear coat. I’m gonna use it for that also. The main implications honestly are showing stretched to customers and insurance adjusters, justifying upcharges.
Keith Cosentino: That’s why you’d buy it. It’s neat to know for yourself, but you would buy it, so when you get it out, it makes you $300.00 or $500.00 every time you open that case. Here’s the depth, here’s why. For a normal two or three push hail dent, it’s .0x millimeters, .05, .03, .08, less than a tenth of a millimeter. That’s a dent everybody in the room would look at and say, “That’s a dent. Let’s fix it.” It’s almost not there. It’s really amazing. That’s one of the reasons guys have said, “These Smooth Tabs don’t get in the bottom of the dent. They don’t have a dent shape to them.” The dents that you’re fixing don’t have a dent shape either. It’s .08 millimeters. It’s hard to even look at that. So, the glue makes up the difference in the shape.
Shane Jacks: We measured some of the tabs in the room. Remember that, Keith? These things were two and a half millimeters deviation. From the crown of the bottom of what’s gonna be inside the depth of the dent to the outside edge was gonna be four millimeters. The dent that you’re realistically gonna glue pull is .2 to .3. That argument doesn’t hold water.
Keith Cosentino: It sure doesn’t. That was one of the things that inspired me to make the tabs. I looked at some of these tabs and I thought, “You could never glue pull a dent that this is shaped to pull. This is like a tennis ball. This is not a good glue tab, not for what we’re doing.” I think part of the problem is that most of the tabs made are not made by techs. They’re made by guys who see that techs need these things. So, they do their best.
Sometimes they’re great and sometimes they’re crap. At least they’re trying to help our industry, so I applaud that, but they’re not guys who use them every day. I’m in the trenches every day, so I knew what I wanted and what I thought would work. Luckily, for you and for me, I was right about that. That’s why some of the best products that we use come from techs, like Carl Stuckey and James Lee and other guys who get their hands dirty every day. They know what product is necessary. So, the dent depth gauge does not have an official name yet, but we’re just calling it the dent depth gauge. I’ll have some cool name for it by the time we get it out.
Shane Jacks: Wee Dipper.
Keith Cosentino: It’s not gonna be called The Wee Dipper either.
Shane Jacks: You’re missing a grand opportunity.
Keith Cosentino: I’m sure. Thanks for sticking with us, fellows. If you want to see the dent depth gauge, we’re gonna have it on BlackplaguePDR very soon. It’s not there yet to see, but keep checking. It’ll be on there with a little description and video on how we use it. It will be available ASAP. We’re gonna see if we can get it out on a lot of the hail trucks too, so it can head out to your site, and you can use it tomorrow to make some more money on a supplement. That’d be cool.
Thank you for sticking with us for a couple of weeks while we were gone. We were bummed out that we left you hanging for a couple weeks. We love all the loyal listeners that listen every Monday when a new episode comes out. Sorry to hang out out to dry. Man, we were just going full speed. Now you know we don’t have a backlog of episodes. They record and go straight to air. It’s always been a goal of ours to do some and have them in the bank. Man, we have a lot going on at the same time, so it’s tough to make a whole day full of podcasts. You’re getting new information as we have it in a show and in your earhole. Thanks for hanging out with us for an hour. We’ll see you next week. Until then –
Shane Jacks: Get better.[End of Audio]
Duration: 79 minutes