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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:
Keith Cosentino: I’m Keith Cosentino; he’s Shane Jacks and this is the PDR College Podcast, the most comprehensive source of expert information for the paintless dent removal industry here for you every week for free. The stuff we’re sharing with you is amazing. It is useful. If you were stranded on a deserted island and the only thing you had was the PDR College Podcast you would be absolutely screwed. But if you are in a paintless dent removal business and you’re trying to make money and all you had was a PDR College Podcast you would be in good shape, my friend.
So listen in today like we do every week as we share our expert skills with you to help you get better and that’s what we’re doing all the time with everyone all over the world. We’re getting e-mails. We’re getting Facebook messages and people are telling us how much better they’re getting thanks to the information we’ve been sharing with them.
I know, Shane, you’ve been getting a lot of that stuff privately, too.
Shane Jacks: Yes, I have. For sure.
Keith Cosentino: One of the things I keep hearing about from everyone all over the country is how much they are enjoying using Recon Pro for their paintless dent removal business. Recon Pro is the software that we use here at my company to keep track of all of the work we do electronically. No more paper invoices; no more stuff to get lost. Guys can now drive around with the windows down in the truck without fear of invoices blowing out into the wind.
Guys, check them out if you’re serious about your business and you want a professional image with your customers and you want a professional system of accounting for all the work you do. AutomobileTechnologies.com Recon Pro.
Now Shane, tell me. How’s this week been treating you?
Shane Jacks: Really good, man. A lot better than last week, I can tell you that.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, you had a rough week last week.
Shane Jacks: Had a pretty bad week last week but things are looking up this week. Did a lot of retail work and some wholesale work and still a little bit of hail work pulling in.
Keith Cosentino: Some stragglers from that last storm?
Shane Jacks: Yeah, I mean we’ve got three or four a week for the next three weeks still coming in.
Keith Cosentino: Ah, that’s –
[Crosstalk]
Shane Jacks: How about your week? Did you get your stacks cleaned up?
Keith Cosentino: It was pretty tragic, man. It had a lot of stuff to clean up there. I’m going to stop stacking up my 20s because that was just a huge mess. I’m just going to stick to 100s. Anything over eight-and-a-half, nine feet is really tough to deal with.
Shane Jacks: It is, especially – yeah.
Keith Cosentino: My vault wasn’t designed for that.
Shane Jacks: Right.
Keith Cosentino: It was designed for mostly platinum bars.
So today is a cool episode. We have a special guest in studio here in the velvet-lined studios of the PDR College Podcast recording studio.
Shane Jacks: How many times did you say studio in that –
Keith Cosentino: At least two and possibly three.
Shane Jacks: Yes.
Keith Cosentino: In studio, velvet-lined studios, high level customized studio.
Shane Jacks: PDR College studio. I think you said it three times.
Keith Cosentino: Well, that was 12.
Shane Jacks: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: So I have brought in an expert in his field, Mr. Austin Bowden. And he is an insurance specialist. Now a lot of you boneheads are running around the country with minimal or not enough or zero insurance for your business and you’re exposing yourself both physically and figuratively speaking. You’re exposing yourself to tons of liability and we brought Austin on the show here to talk about what you need to CYA when you are out there doing business. From a hail-chasing perspective, from a fixed location, there’s a lot of different requirements and I know a lot of it but I don’t know all of it.
So I thought this was the time to bring in a pro. He’s going to put us on the right track and make sure we’re running a real business and not some knucklehead with a truck full of metal sticks.
Austin Bowden: That’s right. Thanks for having me in, Keith. I am the Austin Bowden. I’m with Sheppard & Associates Insurance and we are an insurance brokerage. We specialize in insuring risks from large businesses to small independent contractors, all across the west here, mostly in the western states: California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Washington, Oregon. We just broke into Texas and we continue to grow. We’re excited about what we’re doing in the industry.
Keith Cosentino: You guys writing policies all over the U.S.?
Austin Bowden: We are. We started to tone it back because our involvement on the east coast was too spread out and so we’ve kind of tried to refocus that and put our attention here on the west.
Keith Cosentino: But if you could – you can deal with stuff all over the country if you need to?
Austin Bowden: Yep. Yes, we absolutely can.
Shane Jacks: Nice. I like this guy. He put a “the” in front of his name.
Keith Cosentino: That’s a little bit of Shane. The Shane Jacks’ humor going on there.
Austin Bowden: Nice.
Keith Cosentino: I don’t think you put your own “the” in front of it though initially, right. They gave it to you? They crowned you with that surname?
Shane Jacks: You talking to me or Austin?
Keith Cosentino: Yeah. No.
Shane Jacks: Yeah, I was given that. I’m not that conceited most of the time. Some of the time.
Keith Cosentino: I will challenge that.
Shane Jacks: Yes, sir.
Keith Cosentino: Now, Austin, did the limo show up on time to pick you up?
Austin Bowden: It was a little late. I was straggling to get in here. I was wondering where my sparkling water was but –
Keith Cosentino: All right. I’ll fire that driver. We’ve got a few more waiting in the wings.
Shane Jacks: Were there donuts in the limo?
Austin Bowden: There were not.
Keith Cosentino: I took care of those myself.
Shane Jacks: Nice.
Keith Cosentino: Did I tell you about that time I went with my kids to buy donuts and we were going to bring one back for my wife. Did I tell you that story?
Shane Jacks: I don’t think so. I can see where it’s going.
Keith Cosentino: So the kids wanted donuts and it’s not something we do that often but the kids get real excited. So we go and get donuts and they said, “Hey, we’ve got to bring one back for mom.” I said, “Okay, we’ll pick this one out here and bring a donut back for mom. She’s not really big into that kind of food but she might eat a donut once in a while.”
So my kids take a little longer to eat a donut. So I had some idle time left there. So once I got back I told my wife, “Hey, you want the good news or the bad news?” She said, “I’ll take the good news.” I said, “I got you a donut.” And she said, “Well, what’s the bad news?” I said, “I ate it. You did not get a donut.” Don’t put me around donuts, man.
Shane Jacks: Oh fat boy over there on the west coast.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah. I’m working my way up to being a hail chaser.
Shane Jacks: You’ve got a ways to go, brother.
Keith Cosentino: See, even Austin knows about hail chasers.
Shane Jacks: He’s over there chuckling.
Keith Cosentino: So Austin’s been doing my insurance since I got in the business. So he is intimately familiar with what we do. He’s seen me work. I’ve never had a claim on my insurance, thankfully. So he’s not completely clear on how we could screw a car up. But he does know what we do and how we do it.
So Shane, let me ask you this. Since you chase on a mobile basis and you have a fixed location, we’re going to put you on the spot here and see if you are properly insured. Do you have different policy for both activities or do you think you need one?
Shane Jacks: I do not.
Keith Cosentino: You have the same policy?
Shane Jacks: Same policy for the fixed location and really, I guess the only policy I have is for the fixed location.
Keith Cosentino: Okay. Austin, is this man two minutes from going to prison?
Austin Bowden: You know, it all depends on if you’ve got a solid broker who knows what he’s doing, really. Because the way the policies have evolved in the insurance world we can pick up your mobile exposures on a fixed location policy. It’s something that hasn’t always been the case but they’re recognizing your guys’ needs and what you need to be properly covered.
Keith Cosentino: So, how –
Shane Jacks: How – I’m sorry.
Keith Cosentino: What?
Shane Jacks: I can go ahead and tell you he just said competent broker. Did he say competent broker or what were the words he used?
Austin Bowden: Yeah, I think so.
Shane Jacks: Yeah, the answer is no. It doesn’t matter what situation we’re in, so I’m screwed. I am screwed. So tell us what we need to do.
Austin Bowden: It never hurts to have an independent broker go ahead and just review your policy.
Keith Cosentino: So when we’re talking about an independent broker that’s someone who doesn’t work for the insurance company. They’re just a brokerage firm. They can write for several if not every insurance company?
Austin Bowden: Exactly. Exactly. So that’s one of the things – the big difference is that I encourage a lot of people out there when you’re with a – they’re called a direct writer, someone like Allstate, State Farm, Farmer’s, Geico. Guys like that, they have one product they can offer and that’s what you’re pretty much limited to.
But when you find an independent broker, someone like myself who might – they might throw their name up on their agency, Billy Bob’ Insurance Services. That’s probably where you go Shane?
Shane Jacks: Yes.
Austin Bowden: Generally they’re going to have a few more options for you and the larger they are usually the more access they’ll have and they can offer you better products but a review is always something that should be done. If it’s not done in a couple years, I always recommend two to three years. You get that policy out to the market and see what else is out there for you.
Keith Cosentino: And a guy’s business can evolve, too, right? So if Shane just had a fixed location and was insured for that and then started traveling around the country he may or may not be covered.
Austin Bowden: Exactly. A lot of those policies do have limits to them to – being interstate policies or just different exposures. One of the biggest things we see in the insurance world is that change. That guy that, yeah, he started his business 15 years ago. Well, he never told his broker he’s got 15 employees now. They’re running fleet auto and this guy’s got a basic insurance policy going on. So that’s always one of the big reasons to make sure you get a review on that policy.
Shane Jacks: Austin, I have a question for you. When a hail chaser is out on the road and he’s working — 90 percent of the time we’re working for someone else on the road.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: Is the liability on myself working under another company’s name? Do I still have liability on me or does it default back to that company being billed?
Austin Bowden: And that all depends on the carrier’s, that company’s set-up. A lot of times they’re hiring independent contractors.
Shane Jacks: Yes.
Austin Bowden: So that’s probably the instance where you running in that situation.
Shane Jacks: Yes.
Austin Bowden: And they’re going to have requirements for you to do work for them.
Keith Cosentino: If they have their act together.
Austin Bowden: If they have their act together.
Keith Cosentino: Right. But if it’s just Billy Bob and he wants to hire Shane and he doesn’t have any insurance –
Austin Bowden: Yeah. You’re both taking on those runs when you’re working for a company or doing a run in those hail-chasing situations. You’re both going to be held liable and if something happened generally first it’s going to hit you and then in the end it’s going to hit you. That guy that you’re doing the work for, that you’re subcontracting for, he’ll be named in any type of lawsuit but in the end it all comes back to you Shane.
Shane Jacks: Wow. Okay. That kind of scares me. When you said working for – a lot of times when we’re working these hail storms, we’re actually working for local guys, you know.
Keith Cosentino: Like me or like Shane. Like if it hails here in my town I hire Shane and a bunch of other derelicts from around the country –
Austin Bowden: Okay.
Keith Cosentino: To work under my policy.
Shane Jacks: So that actually scares me more because the big companies at least for the most part they’re going to have their act somewhat together legally because they have to because they have so much exposure, you know.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: The local guys, as you well know, hail is not a phenomenon that typically hits in every area every year. So it can hit, you know, this – it can hit a town once every five years, once every ten years and so the local guys may not take that – take their insurance needs to where they need to be because they just don’t see a need in it. Because it’s not hailing there every year.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: Does that make sense? Whereas the big hail brokerage firms that’s all they’re doing is going to each of these individual towns and because their exposure is so great they have their act together. But now that – what you just said that should scare a ton of us that we would be on the hook first because, naturally, I was thinking shoot, it’s the company I’m working for that’ll be on the hook for anything that happens. But that is opposite of what you’re saying.
Austin Bowden: Yeah, absolutely. And it is that subcontract situation. Generally, if you’re going out there for something like that you should have a contract established and you can put those terms and wording into those contracts. But what we find a lot of times it’s the smaller shops, you know, friends working with friends. Hey, come help me out. There’s a lot of stuff going on out here and it just might not be a comprehensive policy.
Keith Cosentino: So what do the guys have to do on their end to make sure they are covered?
Austin Bowden: Well, there’s a lot of big things out there with these types of policies and really it breaks down to the type of policy. Keith, when I first came into you I was really impressed that you had the right kind of policy. I mean it wasn’t as broad as what you needed but it was a solid insurance policy for someone in your operation.
What I’m finding with a lot of your guys is they know what general liability is.
Keith Cosentino: Right.
Austin Bowden: They’re going to go out and get a general liability policy. Well, that’s the wrong kind of policy for your paintless dent removal guys.
Keith Cosentino: That’s wrong?
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: So that’s the right general term for us, right? General liability but we need to be more specific underneath that?
Austin Bowden: Yeah. And that policy, it breaks down. It’s actually – it’s a garage keepers and garage liability. Those are the two areas where anyone in the auto industry needs to make sure their policy reads those terms in it.
Keith Cosentino: What’s the difference between those two, garage keepers and garage liability?
Austin Bowden: So the breakdown I’m going to give you, maybe a little breakdown of all three here.
Keith Cosentino: Okay.
Austin Bowden: The garage liability that covers slip and fall, you know, similar to that general liability policy. It will step in for anything that you’re legally liable for and even cover damage that you cause. The difference between the garage liability and the general liability is most general liability policies exclude any claims that have to do with autos.
Keith Cosentino: So it’s the exact opposite of what we actually need?
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: It’s general liability other than vehicle related.
Austin Bowden: Exactly, exactly. And then especially for auto repair or paintless dent removal coverage you need to make sure you have is that garage keepers’ liability. And what that does is that covers the vehicles that are in your care, custody and control. And that’s another real big one that I unfortunately see the smaller guys that might just run their own operation that’s what they’re lacking in their policy.
Keith Cosentino: So if you just have garage liability and you’re working in a fixed location like Shane’s shop, some guy walks in, slips and busts his head open, you’re covered. But if you’re delivering the car back around the street, around the corner, and you run into a pole, you’re not covered with that policy. You may be covered with your auto insurance or something.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: But as far as your company is concerned you are out in the cold.
Austin Bowden: That’s exactly it.
Shane Jacks: Now Austin, I have a question. Back – I do have a garage keeper’s on my policy and it covers myself and two other drivers that we transport cars to and from areas. But back, gosh I guess it was four or five years ago when I was first getting this policy or looking for this policy I had a really hard time finding someone that offered garage keepers. It seems like it’s becoming a little more – the insurance companies are becoming a little more open to it again now. But for a while there I had a hard time finding someone. Why was that?
Austin Bowden: It’s just carriers being familiar with the industries. There’s been – out here in the west there’s been a few carriers that have been in it with Day One. Preferred carriers that are reputable and their claim services. But it’s a broadening field, a broadening market. Just like any industry, there’s going to always be one or two guys that say, hey, there’s a market there. Let’s get in on it. And they’re usually going to be the big dogs in the game.
Keith Cosentino: The insurance companies you’re talking about?
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: They’ll recognize a business that’s becoming more prevalent and develop a program for it?
Austin Bowden: Exactly.
Shane Jacks: At this time, I went to Allstate and State Farm and both of them told me we used to do that but we don’t offer it anymore and since that time they have both called me and said they got back on board.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: Now this is in my area. I don’t know if this was something that just was relative to here or if it was something they changed for a while but I had a really hard time. I ended going with an independent company 200 miles away from here, you know, so.
Austin Bowden: I think they got out of your market from that famous faulty hood scoop debacle of the 1980s when they were putting all those crazy hood scoops on the Camaros and everything.
Shane Jacks: Yeah. They still do that.
Keith Cosentino: And one guy got his mullet stuck in it. That was a tragedy.
Shane Jacks: Oh, Austin.
Keith Cosentino: So if you’re out traveling around and you don’t have a fixed location you still need garage liability?
Austin Bowden: Absolutely. So the liability – in your guys’ industry a mobile guy isn’t going to have a whole lot of liability losses, hopefully. But the liability, it’s going to cover that slip and fall type of stuff, accidents that happen. If you don’t set that e-brake on the car and it goes and hurts someone –
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: That’s where your liability steps in. If someone’s walking around and, you know, if you’re at a dealer’s lot or something and you leave your tools out and someone’s walking around and trips on one of your tools and gets one of those nice little rods impaled into their, you know, their pinkie finger, that’s where that liability is going to step in.
Keith Cosentino: So I’d imagine what you should pay for your premium is going to vary depending on how many people you have and what your gross receipts are, right?
Austin Bowden: Yeah, that’s always the famous question. Austin, I need insurance.
Keith Cosentino: How much is it?
Austin Bowden: How much is it. Hey, Keith, can you come pop a dent out of my car?
Keith Cosentino: How much is it?
Austin Bowden: It’s just a little one. How much is it going to cost me?
Keith Cosentino: Right.
Austin Bowden: And you show up and the next thing you know, you know, you’ve got a quarter panel that’s missing –
Keith Cosentino: Right.
Austin Bowden: And who knows what else is going on?
Keith Cosentino: But there’s a general – I mean it’s not going to be 50 bucks and it’s not going to be 50,000.
Austin Bowden: Correct.
Keith Cosentino: If you’re a one-man operation what should you kind of expect to pay, you know, ballpark?
Austin Bowden: Yeah. So breakdowns on policy premium, most of these carriers, especially a preferred carrier, you know, preferred carriers are generally A-rated, they’re admitted within the state you work in. Those are who you should be with.
Keith Cosentino: These are the companies you know are going to pay if you have a claim?
Austin Bowden: Exactly. They’re going to work with you. They’re going to make sure you’re protected. There’s a lot of different types of companies out there and they’re rating and financial standing of that company is always important to look at. And your broker should be able to tell you and give you that breakdown.
As that rolls into pricing wise, a lot of these companies base it on payroll. So that’s where you independent guys can really get a great policy at a very low price because generally, payroll for owners, they’ve got a fixed number there. So your base is 30 to 50,000. They give you a little rate.
An independent contractor, your premiums should be — anywhere from $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 is a good ballpark price.
Keith Cosentino: For a year?
Austin Bowden: For one year.
Keith Cosentino: Now, you mentioned a little bit about the payroll. You’re talking about somebody who’s got their ducks in a row and they’re taking a small payroll, 30 to 50K, and then maybe they’re taking the rest of their income as an owner’s draw or something like that. If you’re just running your business as a sole proprietor and your gross receipts and your pay is 150, 200,000, how much more would a policy be?
Austin Bowden: Well, that’s a great question. A lot of guys get confused by that little scenario that I set up there. What the insurance companies have done for independent guys is they give you an established payroll for an owner. So whether you’re making a dollar or $150,000.00, an owner has a set amount in a payroll-based policy.
Keith Cosentino: Okay. So it really wouldn’t affect your –
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: Amounts that much?
Austin Bowden: It’s the best scenario. A lot of the big companies, Allied, CIG; Benchmark’s another company that’s stepped in to do that and it’s helped out a lot of our little independent guys a lot.
Keith Cosentino: So it’s based on payroll and/or owner compensation?
Austin Bowden: Correct, correct.
Keith Cosentino: Okay.
Austin Bowden: Then there’s policies out there that will rate on gross receipts. Other ones will rate on the number of cars you work on but those are all the – if you want something constant you always want to go on the payroll because you don’t know how many cars you’re going to fix in a year. You’ve got a target; you’ve got a good idea.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: But that’s always going to be changing and it’s become a hassle trying to track that information between the client and the insurance company.
Keith Cosentino: So that’s why you need a broker who is going to explain these things to you and shop you to the proper carriers that are going to rate you in the way that’s most beneficial to you.
Austin Bowden: Exactly. That’s why I get paid the big bucks.
Shane Jacks: And I can see that where you were talking about the scenarios are different, what they base it off of. Especially with like a hail chaser versus a door ding guy. A hail chaser’s going to fix far fewer cars in a year than say Keith will. Keith is going to be working on – how many cars a day do you say you work on, Keith, possibly?
Keith Cosentino: I’d say between three and eight on an average so I guess that’s five.
Shane Jacks: So five on average. A hail tech is going to work on one a day and only going to work six to eight months out of the year whereas Keith is working 13 months a year, so.
Keith Cosentino: True dat. Yeah.
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Keith Cosentino: Would you say most small business owners like dent removal guy that comes to you, are they almost always uninsured or underinsured when they get to you?
Austin Bowden: I would say absolutely.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: That is absolutely the case and again, kind of – I mentioned a lot of guys that have come to me they have a general liability policy. It’s that sweet policy that says, hey, you’re covered. Well, it’s a piece of paper that they paid probably $300.00 to $500.00 for.
Why would I want to pay $1,500.00 for a policy when I got a $500.00 policy?
Keith Cosentino: And most of the time you never make a claim so you just pay your 300 bucks a year and –
Austin Bowden: Yep.
Keith Cosentino: Everybody’s happy and you show that to the people you’re working for and they say, oh, yeah, you’re covered.
Austin Bowden: And they’re happy with it and so that’s how you play that game in life.
Shane Jacks: So what would be a good level? Austin, I have two million on general liability and half a million on garage keepers.
Keith Cosentino: Did you know all these numbers or did you look them up?
Shane Jacks: Me?
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: I actually know them because of the deal that we had in November last year. I had to know those numbers.
Keith Cosentino: Got it. I was going to say, man, my man Shane is a lot more on the ball than his accent would suggest.
Shane Jacks: So all of us southerners are idiots, hey?
Keith Cosentino: I didn’t say that.
Shane Jacks: I’m currently not wearing a mullet, by the way.
Austin Bowden: Currently.
Shane Jacks: Currently.
Keith Cosentino: If it would grow you’d have one.
Shane Jacks: Dang Skippy.
Austin Bowden: Yes, so Shane, most standard policies, they’re going to start out with a basis of a million dollars, occurrence and aggregate. What the aggregate means is the aggregate is covering you – that’s your total coverage for the year and the occurrence level is per occurrence or accident that you have on the liability side. So you’re pretty good there.
Here on the west, generally California, the standard aggregate limit’s $3,000,000.00.
Shane Jacks: We’re three times as flies you guys. How about that?
Austin Bowden: But what you said there on your garage keepers, you’ve got some decent coverage there. That $500,000.00, that’s definitely a solid amount. The way someone determines what your garage keeper’s limit is, is kind of the inventory you’re going to have.
Keith Cosentino: Is he over insured?
Austin Bowden: No, not necessarily.
Shane Jacks: Well, I have four bays that I have cars in it at all times, so.
Austin Bowden: Exactly.
Shane Jacks: That’s covering well over $100,000.00 per bay.
Austin Bowden: Yeah. And a lot of guys don’t think that. They think, you now what? The most expensive car I work on is going to be a $50,000.00 car. Well, they forget they might have two or three cars in their shop.
Keith Cosentino: And they get a fire.
Austin Bowden: And they have a fire, someone breaks in. Some of my guys say that, you know, we don’t store cars on our lot. Every time I drive by –
Keith Cosentino: There’s a car there.
Austin Bowden: There’s cars in that lot.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, and customers just drop a car off without you knowing about it and it’s going – and I’d imagine you’re going to be liable for it.
Austin Bowden: Absolutely, especially if you have a key drop.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: You just became legally liable since they dropped those keys in your door.
Shane Jacks: Oh, that’s a good point. I didn’t think about that.
Keith Cosentino: So Shane, you no longer have an early bird drop.
Shane Jacks: After that statement, you are correct. I’m going to take that bad boy up.
Keith Cosentino: I am just going to go on EBay and buy a sole Lamborghini key and I’m going to go drop that – I’m going to completely fill out that form and just drop the key in there and just wait for my phone call because when I get that call somebody’s buying me a Lamborghini.
Shane Jacks: Ah, yes, sir.
Austin Bowden: So yeah, so Shane, yeah, you got that 500,000 you just. You want to – again, look it. You’ve got four bays going. Look at the value of those cars coming in there. South Carolina, I don’t know. I mean, I heard –
Keith Cosentino: The value’s right around –
Austin Bowden: You just heard what a Tesla is the other day but someone who’s touching Teslas every day, I mean, that 500,000, if they’ve got a shop like yours, is not going to be sufficient.
Shane Jacks: I have yet to see a Tesla here. Not one.
Austin Bowden: Wow.
Shane Jacks: The average, honestly average value of car that I work on –
Keith Cosentino: Is that because your shop is more than 100 miles away from an electrical outlet?
Shane Jacks: No, it’s because they’re spending their money on hood scoops and mullet shavings.
I would say the average would be 30 to 40 grand that I’m working on.
Austin Bowden: Okay.
Shane Jacks: I rarely have –
Austin Bowden: And that’s probably common for –
Shane Jacks: a car over $100,000.00 in the shop. Very rarely.
Austin Bowden: Okay. Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: But you insure for the worst case scenario.
Shane Jacks: I’m insured for four Porsches, basically. I’m sorry, Porsches.
Keith Cosentino: There we go. I didn’t even have to do it.
Austin Bowden: And that’s solid. Again, a lot of guys don’t understand it or don’t think about it. The insurance is there for that worst case scenario. And though it seldom happens to you or maybe even someone you know, the insurance is there for a reason. I mean accidents are happening and that’s where you want to make sure that you’ve got an insurance carrier that’s going to step in to cover you in that situation.
Shane Jacks: And the difference in the premium is so low between say $100,000.00 garage keepers and $500,000.00. Relatively speaking, the premium is not that much different.
Austin Bowden: Yeah. No, you’re talking pennies on the dollar there.
Shane Jacks: Yep.
Austin Bowden: And it’s the same thing with the liability. Some of my guys think I’m crazy when I say you need to have the $3,000,000.0 liability and they think no way. I’m never going to have a loss like that. Like, well, when the difference is $100.00 a year from one million to three million –
Keith Cosentino: Oh, it’s that –
Shane Jacks: Exactly. It’s tiny.
Austin Bowden: Yeah. With some carriers it’s going to be that little.
Keith Cosentino: And this includes any kind of like pain and suffering and medical that people can sue you for? Because that can get into the millions just because people decide to get it.
Austin Bowden: Absolutely. And again, each policy is going to be different. You’ve got to always look how it’s underwritten but generally that’s where liability is going to step in and pay for those damages.
Keith Cosentino: I’m putting you on the spot here but do you have like a handful of questions that a guy should ask a broker when they’re asking about their quote for their – because this stuff is written, you know, in jargon. Like if I were to look at the policy I’m not going to be able to read everything, right? There’s some statement dated forms that make it easy but generally I can’t read every mouse type.
Austin Bowden: Absolutely. You know there are some big differences in policies just like in carriers. How responsible are they going to be? How are they going to step in and cover your claim? One of the big issues that we have with any type of garage keeper’s policy is the basis on the policy being a direct primary versus legal liability.
Keith Cosentino: All right. This is insurance jargon. Now listen close here.
Austin Bowden: This is exactly it. This is the – and this is a big deal. This is one of our biggest issues that we run into with these policies.
Keith Cosentino: Tell me what the two terms are again.
Austin Bowden: It’s called direct primary and legal liability.
Keith Cosentino: Shane, what do those mean?
Shane Jacks: Yes.
Austin Bowden: All right. So direct primary is going to step in and cover most risks, whether you’re at fault or not. So Shane, if you ever store someone’s car overnight and you lock up or you don’t lock up but if you lock up, someone breaks in there and steals those cars, a direct primary policy is going to step in and pay those claims whether you’re legally liable or not.
Shane Jacks: Okay.
Austin Bowden: And a legal liability policy, if you lock those cars up, you did your legal liability. Someone breaks in and steals those cars, well you did your due diligence. You’re off the hook and well, the insurance company is off the hook and now you’re paying for that claim.
Keith Cosentino: So if it goes to court and they find you liable, which they will because you had the stinking cars.
Austin Bowden: That’s exactly it. That is one of the, what? The largest, the biggest errors and issues I see with the garage keepers’ policies. These guys a lot of times in your situation, you know, that independent guy running around he doesn’t want to pay out for a policy. He’s trying to get the cheapest thing he possibly can.
Keith Cosentino: And that’s a legal liability?
Austin Bowden: And that’s a legal liability policy.
Keith Cosentino: That’s almost like a sneaky backdoor thing.
Austin Bowden: Yeah, absolutely.
Keith Cosentino: Oh, yeah. Listen, I’ll cover you as long as – of course, as long as you’re convicted, so. If you’re not convicted you have nothing to worry about.
Austin Bowden: Exactly. And that’s the big issue with a lot of these policies.
Keith Cosentino: So the term you want is a direct primary policy.
Austin Bowden: Exactly. That is it. A lot of things you’ve got to – let’s see.
Keith Cosentino: Put down your energy drinks, guys, and take a note. Direct primary. Check your policy. See if you have it.
Shane Jacks: I just wrote that down. That’s got me scared to death now, honestly.
Keith Cosentino: You’re wondering why you got your policy for 29 bucks.
Shane Jacks: Yeah. $3.00 a month.
Austin Bowden: That’s one of the big things. The other thing is you want to double check and make sure that your carrier knows you’re a mobile operation if you are one. That’s a big discrepancy and a lot of carriers do not want or will not write mobile operations. Some of them will even exclude that. And if you’ve got an exclusion in the policy that means it is not covered and there is no if, ands or buts about it.
Keith Cosentino: I’d imagine a lot of guys would refrain from mentioning that thinking their policy is going to be more expensive but then something happens on the road, you’re smoked. You might as well not have had a policy at all.
Austin Bowden: That’s exactly it. A lot of guys want to, again, get the cheapest policy possible.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: And they’re afraid to disclose everything to their broker because well, if I just tell him I’m a dent puller or I work on cars, auto body, all right, well, great. You’re in a box. Here’s your box policy.
Keith Cosentino: Hmm.
Austin Bowden: But you’re paintless dent removal. When you’re driving around fixing stuff that does not fit in that little box.
Keith Cosentino: But they’re happy to write you the policy.
Austin Bowden: Oh, yeah.
Keith Cosentino: They’re just not happy to pay the claims.
Austin Bowden: Exactly. That’s exactly it.
Keith Cosentino: Man. All right. So we got to make sure they know everything about what we do. We got to make sure we have direct primary insurance. What else are we looking for? Anything else?
Austin Bowden: One of the things that I’m finding, again with a lot of the small contractors is they’re asking me, Austin, what about commercial auto? I’ve been running my own truck and a lot of contractors – in any industry, an independent contractor; usually he’s running out of his personal vehicle.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah. I’ve had this question, too.
Austin Bowden: He doesn’t have a commercial fleet set-up and when the breakdown on that situation is you’re at risk when you’re driving your own personal vehicle but what puts you even at greater risk is now you’re personally liable and because you might be driving to a job you can be held commercially liable where they’re coming after your company if you got in an accident.
Keith Cosentino: Even with no stickers on your truck or any of that stuff and you’re driving for work and you run over some lady’s lawn and kill her dog.
Austin Bowden: Yep.
Keith Cosentino: You’re personally liable and you’re possibly liable and your company?
Austin Bowden: Yeah. Especially when they find out, hey, he has own company. Now they know the policy limits just went up. So now they can go after more money. I don’t know how suit crazy they are out there in South Carolina, if they even know what a lawsuit is.
Keith Cosentino: Trust me. They’re crazy, sue crazy. The average annual income is $17,000.00 and if they can sue you for a million for a slip and fall, they are going to do it.
Shane Jacks: Yes, they are.
Austin Bowden: Yeah, so with my recommendation is that, you know, our agency does write home and auto insurance. There’s a lot of auto carriers there on the personal lines side that will write and cover a business risk. But there’s also a lot of them that will not cover that and one of the guys – you know, a lot of the guys say you know, I’ve got insurance limits, that’s fine. My personal auto covers it. Another big scare is that a personal lines policies are written at state minimums.
Now Keith, have you ever broke an arm before?
Keith Cosentino: No.
Austin Bowden: No? I know you broke someone’s foot before.
Keith Cosentino: I did break someone’s foot and I’ve broken my own hand but have not broken an arm.
Austin Bowden: Okay. Do you know – how much was it to fix that hand?
Keith Cosentino: Well, I only go to the best doctors, actually slide them in here.
Shane Jacks: Well, there you go.
Keith Cosentino: From Canada. No, I don’t know. Couple thousand bucks at least.
Austin Bowden: Yeah. Couple thousand bucks. So the average of broken arm – on average is anywhere from $5,000.00 to $15,000.00, depending on severity. Statement on limits here in California is 15/30. So that means it’s $15,000.00 in medical per person.
Keith Cosentino: Okay.
Austin Bowden: And 30 per accident. That’s going to cover a broken arm.
Keith Cosentino: Or two.
Austin Bowden: Or maybe two.
Keith Cosentino: That’s it.
Austin Bowden: And that’s it. You’re personal limits, especially if you’re driving around in your personal vehicle for commercial – for your business use, you need to have sufficient limits mainly to protect your assets.
Keith Cosentino: So are there, I think you call them riders to your garage keepers and all that that will insure your work vehicle?
Austin Bowden: There are definitely riders that can do that. They will extend limits. Usually a carrier wants you to get your own commercial auto policy.
Keith Cosentino: So this is another one that you need to be completely forthright with your agent or your broker about what you’re doing with your car.
Austin Bowden: Exactly.
Keith Cosentino: Because it may save you money to lie about it but you might as well – if you’re going to lie you might as well just lie and say you have insurance when you don’t because –
Austin Bowden: We see more auto claims than general liability claims –
Keith Cosentino: I’d imagine that.
Austin Bowden: In every industry.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, really popular, I mean –
Austin Bowden: Especially with how much you guys are out on the road, especially the hail chasers. I mean, think of the miles. Your likelihood of accidents.
Keith Cosentino: Imagine you’re somewhere across country and you have a bike rack on the back of your truck and you stop on the way to dinner and some dude in an F150 comes plowing right back into your tail gate.
Shane Jacks: Yeah, good one, Keith. You’re hilarious.
Keith Cosentino: Listen, that’s a realistic scenario that can and has happen.
Shane Jacks: And did happen. But I wasn’t liable for that in the least bit.
Keith, do you have commercial on your vehicle?
Keith Cosentino: I think my regular auto policy has a commercial endorsement. I think is the proper – is that the right terminology?
Austin Bowden: Yeah, business use endorsement.
Keith Cosentino: Okay.
Austin Bowden: He’s got an awesome carrier to cover his home and auto through an amazing broker that writes his insurance on that. Keith, who is the broker that does your home and auto?
Keith Cosentino: Austin Golden Boy Bowden.
Austin Bowden: Oh, that – you know, you’re right. That’s me. I forgot. I write that, too. So he’s got the coverages that he needs. He’s well protected and he’s got solid limits. He’s got a nice little house he lives in and he has enough liability limits to cover that loss in that lawsuit when they sue you and come after your home. Well, Keith gets to keep it for now. With those minimum limits, that’s one of the big scares is that homeowner has minimum limits and he’s saving $50.00 to $150.00 a year in insurance but that lawsuit just cost him his home or they’re stiping his check for the next 30 years.
Keith Cosentino: And that’s being sued over your policy and losing.
Austin Bowden: Yes, exactly.
Shane Jacks: I would say to guys if you’re going to get in contact with – go with someone else. He just called Keith’s house little. So this guy’s making way too freaking much money if his house is anything bigger than Keith’s.
Keith Cosentino: He’s got a sense of humor. And I have a little aid station between the front door and the studio because you get tired walking.
Shane Jacks: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: So you can stop. You towel off. You get a little drink of cold sparkling water.
Shane Jacks: Which wing is this in that you’re speaking of? Which wing is your studio in?
Keith Cosentino: The one we’re recording in today?
Shane Jacks: Yes.
Keith Cosentino: The west wing.
Shane Jacks: The west wing. Okay.
Keith Cosentino: I save the east wing for female guests. The west wing for male or business guests.
So let’s talk about that scenario, the busting Shane’s chops. That really happened. Shane was on his way to a job. Stopped for dinner and he got rear ended in his work truck that has stickers on it that explains what he does.
Now, Shane doesn’t think he was liable because the guy rear ended him. Is he right about that or does he have still some exposure there?
Austin Bowden: That’s a tough question. There’s a lot going into that.
Keith Cosentino: You’ve seen a lot of crazy situations, though. You’ve been doing this a long time.
Austin Bowden: Yeah. Usually, usually when you’re rear ended the other guy is at fault.
Keith Cosentino: Right.
Austin Bowden: There’s not a whole lot of risk there for you unless you pulled out right in front of him, Shane?
Shane Jacks: No, I was sitting stopped at a red light.
Austin Bowden: Okay.
Shane Jacks: He was at fault. He was found at fault. He had no insurance, no tag. So it was a really bad situation. For me, it was.
Austin Bowden: And you just brought up another great point to touch on.
Shane Jacks: I always do.
Austin Bowden: Man, you must be a professional, Shane.
Shane Jacks: Yeah. Professional –
Austin Bowden: You know what you’re doing.
Shane Jacks: BSer.
Austin Bowden: So that right there, that uninsured motorist –
Shane Jacks: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: That’s one of the most overlooked coverages on a general auto policy. Again, we talk about minimum limits or being underinsured. There’s a little checkbox on every policy that covers underinsured and uninsured motorist. So you’ve got that million dollar commercial policy. You’re protecting, you know, everyone out there on the road that you might run into. That little checkbox for the underinsured or uninsured motorist covers you.
So why would you drive around covering everyone else for a million dollars or whatever your policy limit is and not be covering yourself for at least that same limit?
Shane Jacks: Right. And in some states that’s required. In South Carolina it is required.
Austin Bowden: Yeah, yeah.
Keith Cosentino: So with uninsured motorist, I know I’ve had this conversation before. I don’t recall if Austin and I have had it but if somebody hits you and run it’s usually because they are uninsured and they don’t want to stick around. But as I understand it properly, to prove that that motorist was uninsured they need to stick around so you can get their information, right?
Austin Bowden: That is exactly it.
Shane Jacks: This guy told me, he said – just on this same story he says, “Man, it’s going to take them an hour to get here. How about let’s just exchange information.” And I said, “You’re not going anywhere and neither am I, brother.”
Austin Bowden: Yeah, yeah. We find that all the time.
Keith Cosentino: Is there anything that can cover you for the hit and run uninsured motorist?
Austin Bowden: Yeah. Again, that uninsured motorist coverage will step in. The caveat to it is usually they’re going to collect your deductible.
Keith Cosentino: Okay. So if they bail and you can’t prove they’re uninsured they’re still going to cover it.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: Sometimes. But I’ve heard – am I right? Are those correct stories that I’m hearing that sometimes they don’t cover it?
Austin Bowden: Sometimes they don’t.
Keith Cosentino: Or is that more for the crappy insurance companies?
Austin Bowden: That’s usually the crappy insurance company.
Keith Cosentino: Like Geico or something like that.
Austin Bowden: I’m not going to say names but that little lizard does have some issues.
Keith Cosentino: Yes. Listen, all of the hail guys deal with the insurance companies day in and day out and Geico is a real bear to deal with. I think State Farm is tough, too. Right, Shane?
Shane Jacks: It depends on where you’re at, man. Honestly, I have – in my area I have very – and it may depend on the relationships you have, also. I have very little problem with State Farm here, honestly. And really, I don’t have a problem with a whole lot of them. Allstate, every now and then, honestly, so.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: Because it’s – you know.
Austin Bowden: It’s going to depend on, you know, your area. I can spit off a whole bunch of names of carriers that I can’t stand working with because of the claim issues and the process of just trying to collect information from them.
Keith Cosentino: And this is a guy that works in the business. So he knows their stupid forms and all that stuff.
Shane Jacks: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: If he doesn’t want to deal with it you know you don’t want to.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: Let me ask you about a couple other things that I think guys overlook. Disability insurance. Shane, do you have any?
Shane Jacks: No. I think about it once a week, honestly, and I’ve spoken with some agents about it and just never have pulled the trigger. I think I’m Superman, so.
Keith Cosentino: Do you know anything about it?
Shane Jacks: Not really. Not that much. Not enough to make –
Keith Cosentino: Right.
Shane Jacks: I’m sure in about three or four minutes or less Austin’s going to make me feel about as bad as I did about not knowing the difference between direct primary and legal liability, so.
Keith Cosentino: Listen, I didn’t know that either. And just like we talked about before –
Shane Jacks: I know, but what I’m saying is he’s going to make me feel bad about it, see.
Keith Cosentino: Just like we talked about having a Web guy and being able to default to him as your expert, you guys can’t know all this stuff. And I don’t know all this stuff, either. But that’s why I employ a pro because when I have a question I just drop it in his lap and he knows. It’s stupid to try to learn all this stuff on your own and then go navigating all the Web sites by yourself, trying to deal directly with the insurance companies because you don’t know all this stuff. And you can learn a lot and get close but you miss one phrase or one thing, you don’t ask the right questions and you’re out in the cold.
So in my world, CPA, Web guy, insurance guy, you need pros for all that stuff. Don’t be screwing with that stuff by yourself. So I know a little bit about disability insurance because Austin has taught me about it and I know the most important term that I learned was an elimination period. Do you know what that is, Shane?
Shane Jacks: Do I know what elimination period is?
Keith Cosentino: Yep.
Shane Jacks: I have no idea. Unless you’re talking about sports.
Keith Cosentino: All right, Austin. Give us a little 101,
Shane Jacks: Is this hockey? Does he play hockey?
Austin Bowden: That’d be fun.
Shane Jacks: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: Some hockey.
Keith Cosentino: Not for me.
Austin Bowden: All right, all right. Yeah, disability. This one is not my specialty because you guys don’t like it. You guys don’t like to buy it.
Keith Cosentino: Nobody wants it.
Austin Bowden: It’s a tough one. That period, that elimination period. Generally, when you get injured, Shane – well, you’re Superman so I guess you don’t get injured.
Shane Jacks: I heal myself with my vision.
[Crosstalk]
Keith Cosentino: Yeah. When you fake an injury.
Austin Bowden: There’s a period to set up before the state steps in to help you with that. I don’t know every state but the State of California, it can take up to two years for the state to step in and finally cover your disability insurance.
Keith Cosentino: And that’s like, you know, a couple hundred bucks a month or something. It’s not real coverage, right? The state, I mean they don’t pay you that much.
Austin Bowden: Well, I can’t step in and speak for the state on that one.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, but it’s not – you’re not going to continue your lifestyle of whatever it takes –
Austin Bowden: Definitely not. Definitely not.
Shane Jacks: It’s pretty quick out here.
Keith Cosentino: Is it?
Shane Jacks: Yeah, because I mean everybody’s having heart attacks pretty much daily from the fried foods so they’ve got a kiosk on every corner.
Austin Bowden: Awesome. So yeah. So the disability, you’ve got that period before the state steps in to make any coverage. That disability is there to help subsidize you or to help make those payments until, again, until the state steps in.
Depending on the type of disability policy you purchase, it can go above and beyond that. There’s a lot of programs out there. New York Life and Met Life are two really large companies that set up programs that can essentially take care of you the rest of your life if you’re willing to pay the price.
Keith Cosentino: So an elimination period is – correct me if I’m wrong here. It’s a period of time that you’ll go between your injury and your first check.
Austin Bowden: That’s exactly it. And so in California the average has been two years.
Keith Cosentino: For the state. So if you have no disability insurance –
Austin Bowden: Correct.
Keith Cosentino: If you bust yourself up, in two years you can go apply with the state?
Austin Bowden: Yeah. On a general policy, each policy is going to be different for that elimination period. There’s some that won’t step in for 30 days and there’s others that won’t step in for 90 days.
Keith Cosentino: As you can imagine, the 90 day is a lot cheaper than the 30 day.
Austin Bowden: That’s exactly it. One of the big reasons I don’t see a lot of smaller guys getting disability insurance is because of the price. Generally you’re paying about ten percent a month for whatever you want that payout to be. So Keith, if you’re looking for a $3,000.00 a month which might not be sufficient for your lifestyle but that $3,000.00 a month is going to cost you $250.00 a month in premium.
Keith Cosentino: Okay. But that varies a lot depending on that elimination period, right? If you want to wait three months before you get a check then it’s a lot cheaper.
Austin Bowden: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Keith Cosentino: What number you’re talking about is for 30 days?
Austin Bowden: Correct. That’s a 30-day –
Keith Cosentino: And that’s pretty good. You get a bad leg break and you’re going to be out for six or eight weeks.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: Keith’s policy would be like ten grand a month.
Keith Cosentino: It’s expensive.
Shane Jacks: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: So yeah, you’ll find with a lot of large corporations, any big corporation company, they’re going to get those rates a lot cheaper. A lot of them go through Aflac. We’ve used Aflac a few times because they really know what they’re doing. Not to plug them too much but –
Keith Cosentino: They are the real deal? They kind of seem like a scam with those commercials.
Austin Bowden: It seems like it but more and more I’ve used them and referred people to them. They answer any question I don’t think about asking.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah?
Austin Bowden: And that goes to say a lot.
Keith Cosentino: All right. So look into Aflac if you’re worried about disability is what you’re saying?
Austin Bowden: Yeah and any life, health and life broker, insurance broker, will know about disability. Can point you in the right direction. Here in California I’ve dealt with a lot of different brokers. We write it ourselves in our agency and there’s been some accounts I have not been able to work with and so we, in turn – I have a referral source over at Aflac. I was able to pour it off on them and they’ve taken great care of that client for me. So I’m not afraid to refer people over to them anymore.
Keith Cosentino: So do you recommend guys doing what we’re doing have a disability policy? I know it’s an individual thing but –
Austin Bowden: You know, it is an individual thing. I’m always going to recommend that you have a garage keeper’s policy. I’m going to push you to have an umbrella policy for that worst case scenario.
Keith Cosentino: We didn’t talk about that.
Austin Bowden: We did not talk about that.
Keith Cosentino: Shane, what’s an umbrella policy?
Shane Jacks: It’s if you get caught in a really bad rain storm. Everything floods.
Keith Cosentino: There’s a guy here and he gets out an umbrella out for you.
Austin Bowden: It’s so nice to have. That umbrella policy, so yeah, you’ve got your general limits and Shane, you mentioned was it one million dollar occurrence policy? And did you say two million aggregate on your –
Shane Jacks: Yes, yes. Yep.
Austin Bowden: Yeah, that’s – again, generally that’s the industry standard. What an umbrella does is it’s going to increase those limits for you. Generally, the umbrella in the commercial world is going to go over your commercial auto and your garage liability and it is additional coverage for a very cheap price.
Keith Cosentino: So this is coverage for only above your policy? So if you’re sued for five million and you’re found guilty the extra three or two million above your policy that’s what the umbrella is going take care of? I refer to this as rich people insurance because, you know, you’ve got to have something to lose.
You know, if you live in a trailer park you’re judgment proof even if somebody wins a case against you. You’ve got nothing to give. But when you’ve got five million dollars in property and a two million dollar liability policy you’ve got something to give.
Austin Bowden: That’s exactly it.
Shane Jacks: So you need rich people insurance.
Austin Bowden: Yeah, yeah. And it’s crazy because people think there’s no way I’m going to pay for that but the price – it will be half of what you’re paying for your garage liability.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah?
Austin Bowden: That’s standard. One of the reasons it’s cheaper is because it’s not hit a whole lot.
Keith Cosentino: Never, probably. Almost never.
Austin Bowden: Yeah. But for those guys that it has hit, they are so grateful they have that in place.
Keith Cosentino: All right, Shane. You need an umbrella policy.
Shane Jacks: You don’t need one unless they find your vault.
Keith Cosentino: With your 900 acre southern plantation your two million is not going to cover that.
Shane Jacks: It’s not.
Keith Cosentino: All right. Here’s another one that people ask me about a lot that are just – they’ve started their business for a while and they’re looking now to hire some people. They want to know about Workers’ Compensation Insurance.
Austin Bowden: Yeah. Workers Comp. This one’s huge, especially here in the State of California because you’re mandated. If you have an employee you must have Workers’ Comp Insurance.
Keith Cosentino: If they’re a W-2 employee, right?
Austin Bowden: If they are a W –
Keith Cosentino: Not if you’re a subcontractor, right?
Austin Bowden: Yeah, but there’s some rules to that subcontractor working for you.
Keith Cosentino: But like these hail guys that – or a guy that’s local and they hire a bunch of hail guys. They don’t need Workers’ Compensation insurance for these guys, right? If they’re contractors?
Austin Bowden: I’m going to leave a little pause there. An awkward silence. So there’s some protection for yourself there, Shane. Do you have hail guys ever coming in doing work for you? You guys handle that all yourself?
Shane Jacks: At times, yes, we do.
Austin Bowden: So if you’re hiring these guys to come in and work under your name –
Shane Jacks: Um-hum.
Austin Bowden: The biggest issue is making sure that they have insurance.
Shane Jacks: Right.
Austin Bowden: When you go out and work for a dealer, a dealership, Keith, do they usually ask something for you?
Keith Cosentino: They want to be named on my policy so that my policy says Keith with Bulls Eye and Chicken Lips Hyundai. So when somebody sues Chick Lips Hyundai for me being on that lot smashing up a car there’s a policy with their name on it and mine. So they’re covered.
Austin Bowden: That’s exactly it. And that is what you guys – you want when you have subcontractors coming out there and doing work for you. And that’s to protect yourself from that case against the Workers’ Comp. If they don’t have liability, if they don’t have their liability, if they’re some 1099 and the state finds out you are liable and if he gets hurt he – technically he can come back and say hey, I was doing work for this guy. I’m hurt. He needs to pay for it. The state’s going to side with that guy who got hurt.
Keith Cosentino: So you’ve got a corporation, you hire some guy who says he’s incorporated. He comes and hurts himself and comes after you or your corporation, the state’s going to find in his favor you think?
Austin Bowden: Yep, yep, more often than not. Especially – I’ve seen it – I don’t know how many times. Countless times here in California. We keep running into this.
Keith Cosentino: All right. So it sounds like what you’re saying, if you want to be completely by the book, you want to cover yourself in every scenario, if you’re a local guy and hail hits your town and you want to bring in subcontractors, you need to be named as an additional insured on their policy? Just like the dealership asks for.
Austin Bowden: Absolutely.
Keith Cosentino: Wow. Shane, has that ever been asked of you?
Shane Jacks: No, not one time.
Keith Cosentino: I’ve never even heard of it.
Shane Jacks: Nope.
Keith Cosentino: And we talk to a lot of guys about a lot of different things in the business. So, man, maybe a lot of you guys are leaving your pants down when you hire contractors and it doesn’t cost them that much to have it done. It’s maybe – takes a day worth of paperwork to happen because signatures have to happen and a piece of paper has to change. It maybe takes – I may be spoiled.
When I need something like this done, Austin jumps on it in the same day but I guarantee you not every broker is doing that. They’ll probably give it back to you in a week or so.
Austin Bowden: Yeah, and really, though, that worst case is a week and on most policies nowadays it might be a charge. They might charge you $25.00, maybe $50.00 for that endorsement. But a lot of the new policies coming out here the last couple years they include a blanket where anyone that requests that from you is included on the policy.
Keith Cosentino: No extra charges?
Austin Bowden: No extra charges.
Keith Cosentino: They have like an online form you can put them on there or do you have to talk to a person –
Austin Bowden: Usually you still have to talk to the broker.
Keith Cosentino: Okay.
Austin Bowden: That is an essential way to protect yourself from those guys that are coming out there that –
Keith Cosentino: And these are guys that you may or may not know, fellas. These guys coming maybe from another country, from another state. You only have heard of them or maybe you haven’t heard of them at all and they are going to come and put your family at risk.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: This could potentially be huge. I mean that something like you said Keith. I’ve never had it asked of me and have never asked it of any of my techs that come in and I know these guys. The guys that I bring in, I know them for the most part 99 percent of the time. But still, do you really know someone when they’re backs are against the wall or on your floor?
Keith Cosentino: Right. When they are used to providing for their family in the six months out of the year and they just fell and got a concussion on the floor because you spilled a bottle of was and they’re pissed off about it. They might be coming after you.
Shane Jacks: Yep.
Austin Bowden: Yeah. So that’s where if you already have an underlying Workers’ Comp policy that’s really where you’re protected in that scenario from those guys.
Keith Cosentino: So a Workers’ Comp policy would cover you under subcontractors that are not employees?
Austin Bowden: That are not employees that don’t have insurance.
Keith Cosentino: Interesting, okay.
Austin Bowden: It’s always something to consider. You know, a lot of guys, you know, it’s another insurance expense.
Keith Cosentino: And it’s expensive, too.
Austin Bowden: It can be very expensive. But when you have no employees you’re running down your – you’re going to be the minimum limits just to keep that policy going. But it can still cost you between $500.00 and $1,000.00 a year to run a policy with no employees under it.
Keith Cosentino: And the only thing – well, you tell me. What is that covering basically if you have no employees and you have that Workers’ Comp policy?
Austin Bowden: That is covering those guys that you bring in.
Keith Cosentino: So anybody that could work for you, W-2 or 1099, that would cover them?
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: Can they come back on you and say, let’s say, okay, next year hail’s in my area in March, all right, Austin? And I have a Workers’ Comp policy and it’s costing me a grand a year, whatever it costs. And I have guys in here for nine solid months. Are they going to come back and say well, no, we’re not covering because – does that make sense? Does my question make sense?
Austin Bowden: Because they’re too long term?
Shane Jacks: Because they’re too long term and I’ve got 15 of them in here, you know.
Austin Bowden: As long as you’re paying the rate for employee – that’s one of those little loopholes in the system. You know, the Workers’ Comp is there to cover employees. It’s not set up to cover those guys, you know. It’s intent isn’t to cover the independent contractor coming in there, you know, for you all the time saying they have insurance and then they don’t.
But that’s one of the protections it provides is those guys that say they have insurance and then end up not having insurance and then they come in and slip and fall and sue you. It’s there for a protection. It’s not the everyday oh, I’ve got Workers’ Comp so don’t worry about getting general liability insurance.
Keith Cosentino: Right.
Austin Bowden: That’s not what it’s intents for. And it’s going to be – it will be different in each state, especially because those guys are coming from out of state generally to work those hail losses for you.
Shane Jacks: Right. I just found it – you said you’ll be paying the minimum and I could have 15 guys in here and I’m covered. That’s kind of confusing. I guess it’s like you said, it’s just a loophole some.
Austin Bowden: Yeah and it’s protecting you. It’s not to protect them.
Shane Jacks: Right.
Austin Bowden: Again, you’ve got 15 guys coming in there. You want to make sure those guys have insurance unless they’re employees and you’re paying for those employees. Those guys need to have their own insurance.
Shane Jacks: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: Let me ask you this question. Is there any insurance that you could have that would cover you if all those guys don’t have insurance? Would it just be a giant liability policy?
Austin Bowden: From what stand case? Protecting you from?
Keith Cosentino: I guess it could be anything.
Austin Bowden: It could be, yeah.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, so that’s a – no is the answer to that.
Austin Bowden: The answer is no.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, okay.
Austin Bowden: And Keith, you know, you had Workers’ Comp for years. You had an employee for a while and what did we end up doing there for you?
Keith Cosentino: Well, eventually we got rid of it.
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: So Keith had a couple guys working for him but what we found out is these guys were kind of doing some jobs on the side and they’re not a hundred percent under the care, custody and control of Keith Cosentino.
Keith Cosentino: Right. And we don’t mean they were working for, you know, like on the side like taking money from the company. But my guys are independent contractors so they’re able to turn jobs down if I give them jobs. They don’t have to take them. They don’t have to show up at a certain time, they don’t have to be at a certain place. They’re kind of doing their own thing and billing their work through the company.
Austin Bowden: Yeah. So there’s definitely value there. You use them. You trust them. But on a financial standpoint, that was – Workers’ Comp was an additional expense for you in that case.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, it was expensive.
Austin Bowden: And these guys have been around for a long time with you, right?
Keith Cosentino: Right.
Austin Bowden: So what we did is we set up some of these employees on their own policies that set up their strength, their freedom and then each of those independent contractors named Keith – well, Bull’s Eye Paintless Dent Removal – as additionally insured on their policies to give Keith the protection so when they’re out there doing a job for him everyone is covered.
Keith Cosentino: They are covered and I’m covered. Shane, you’ve got your guys doing that, right?
Shane Jacks: I’m going to say yes. My fingers, toes, legs and arms could possibly be crossed at this moment.
Keith Cosentino: Man. Well, we could probably talk about insurance scenarios for three hours straight. I know a lot of guys have questions about life insurance but that’s pretty basic to look up. Austin do you have anything you want to add quickly for somebody who’s buying life insurance?
Austin Bowden: Look it up and do a little homework. Again, price is always a driver but you get what you pay for.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: In any type of scenario, you get what you pay for.
Keith Cosentino: Shane, how many times your annual income should your life insurance policy be?
Shane Jacks: The standard answer is ten.
Keith Cosentino: Austin, you agree?
Austin Bowden: That’s some awesome living there.
Keith Cosentino: He was going to tell you something lower.
Austin Bowden: Actually, I was. I was going to tell you something lower. But Shane, you’re right on board, you know. Life insurance, you’re taking care of your family. If you leave that is what’s going to get done through it.
Shane Jacks: Yep.
Austin Bowden: A ten million dollar policy, that’s going to set your family up if they’re smart. Hopefully they are smart with that money. I’m not going to be a financial advisor but –
Keith Cosentino: The great thing is you won’t know if they’re going to be smart with the money.
Austin Bowden: That’s true. That’s true. Most of the guys that I work with they’re getting a three million dollar liability policy, life insurance policy.
Keith Cosentino: Three million?
Austin Bowden: Yeah.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: And that’s kind of the standard in most independent contractor situations where there’s no retirement that’s going to be kicking in. Some of those guys have other investments, some don’t but that’s another show.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, absolutely. But Shane says ten times. What do you say? Three or five times?
Austin Bowden: Yeah. I’d be comfortable with five.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Austin Bowden: Something. You’ve got to have something. You can’t –
Keith Cosentino: It’s kind of cheap too, though. So to go ten or even twenty times, it’s not that expensive.
Austin Bowden: No. Yeah, I know. It’s not.
Keith Cosentino: So if you’ve got kids and you’re worrying about how they’re going to pay for stuff when you’re gone, twenty times. Twenty times and your wife will not have to marry some scumbag just because he has money.
Shane Jacks: I think my wife actually wants to when I’m gone, so.
Keith Cosentino: She wants somebody with more chest hair and more jewelry.
Shane Jacks: Yes. Opulence. I do not has it.
Keith Cosentino: Well, Austin, is there – if guys have more questions is there a way they can get ahold of you. You have an e-mail or a phone number you want to give out or anything?
Austin Bowden: Yeah, I’ll do a little plug for both. Again, it’s Austin at Sheppard & Associates Insurance.
Keith Cosentino: All right. Spell that one because that’s a tough one. Sheppard.
Austin Bowden: That’s the name of the agency. My e-mail –
Keith Cosentino: Yeah. Okay. Austin at; that’s not an e-mail.
Austin Bowden: Yeah, AustinB, A-u-s-t-i-n, just like Texas, Austin, Texas. So it’s AustinB, as in boy; @Sheppard. That’s S-h-e-p-p-a-r-d-i-n-s.com.
Keith Cosentino: And that e-mail address was made by an insurance company and not somebody who’s into marketing.
Austin Bowden: That’s exactly what that is. That’s my business, insurance. That’s not marketing. So that’s where you can find me. You want a number? I’m always open for a phone call. The direct local number here is 916-784-9292. My extension is 205 and I have even got an 800 number which is, let’s see, 866-459-9292.
Keith Cosentino: So if you are at one of the last remaining pay phones in the nation and you want to call him you can do so without coins.
Austin Bowden: True story.
Keith Cosentino: Austin, thanks for sharing all that stuff. I know even as many conversations as we’ve had about insurance I learned something today and I know Shane learned about a hundred percent more than he knew before we started. So that’s good because Shane’s a pretty sharp dude.
So I know a lot of you guys out there were just thinking right know that you are basically one lawsuit away from living in a gutter and you’re probably right. So get your insurance ducks in a row because it is important.
Shane Jacks: Yes. Austin, thanks. I did. I learned a ton, like Keith says.
Austin Bowden: My pleasure. I’m glad insurance is so exciting. I mean, I know – your ratings, guys, are going to go through the roof because of this.
Keith Cosentino: Everybody’s talking about insurance. It’s the new Perez Hilton.
Shane Jacks: Actually, in the PDR industry with hail insurance is a very, very interesting subject. So we’ll just tell them it’s about, you know, it’s about insurance and they’ll think it’s dealing with adjusters.
Keith Cosentino: So it is not an episode of the podcast without a tool review and today I actually wanted to talk about this earlier in the show because I’m so excited about it but we got all tied up on the insurance stuff so we’re here at the end like we always are.
But Shane was making fun of me because I haven’t owned this tool set earlier but I finally broke down and spent a very small amount of money and bought the Dentcraft Side Panel Hook Set. And a lot of you guys, if you’ve been on their site, even on their home page, I think they’ve got a little box for it either in the middle or on the side and it’s those arcing sweep tools with black handles that are kind of an unconventional position. The handle is in the same plane as the sweep.
And it’s a set of – gosh, I think it’s six pieces. I don’t even know exactly now. Six or seven. And they all have that round bend at the end instead of a 90 or a 60 or something that most conventional tools have.
And I’ve always wanted a couple smaller tools but I didn’t think I’d use the larger ones. So, I kind of put off buying them. Well, I finally pulled the trigger on them the other day and I didn’t even – the first time I got them out of the box — because I just threw the box in my truck and ran off to work. The first dent of the day I used a tool out of there and I thought, wow.
Shane Jacks: And it wasn’t one of the smaller ones, was it?
Keith Cosentino: No, it wasn’t.
Shane Jacks: Ha ha.
Keith Cosentino: It wasn’t. And then the next car I used it again and I thought, am I just using these because they’re brand new? You know, new tools, I’m excited and I’m finding a way to use it? So I thought, okay, I’m not going to use this. I’m going to use something else just to see and I couldn’t use anything else. That bend was the bend I needed. I would have had to bend something or come up with a different attack strategy for that dent.
So man, I am sold on these tools. They are fantastic and the best thing about them is they’re frigging dirt cheap. It’s 159 bucks for the entire set. If you don’t have this –
Shane Jacks: You’re stupid like Keith was three days ago.
Keith Cosentino: You’re a retard, a total retard like I was. Just being a cheap rascal. I mean Dentcraft sells plenty of tools that are by themselves $160.00 and they’re money in the bank. This is the whole entire set. I don’t know why I didn’t get them earlier but man, I’m going to make all my guys get them this week and I’m telling you, hop on their site, DentcraftTools.com and get the Side Panel Hook Set. They’re all black, like a black shaft, black handle. Get the entire set. Don’t just buy one or two because you’re going to use every single one of them. Fantastic tools.
What’s your favorite place to use those tools, Shane?
Shane Jacks: Yes.
Keith Cosentino: Everywhere.
Shane Jacks: No, seriously. I mean, those things – I’d use them on hail damaged cars, even on the top panels. I know that sounds crazy but they have – but the bigger one, the one with the round tip on it –
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: That’s really blunt, Keith. Do you know what I’m talking about?
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
[Crosstalk]
Shane Jacks: That thing, if you’re close to the edge of a roof and you’ve got your hanger hanging in the door there, a lot of tools don’t have enough sweep and come back up. They’re not complete 90s. But that tool will get close to the edge where the other tools won’t. So I use them even on roofs of hail damage cars at times. And use them in the doors absolutely constantly. You know, under the handles, in that area, because they have that sweep.
Where’s your favorite place?
Keith Cosentino: So here’s the couple places that I used them just this last week when I first got them. One was that same tool that you’re talking about but I was in a quarter of an Altima at a body shop. The guys did a bumper job and used some kind of pry bar to take the tail light out. It slides backwards. They were trying to pop it out to the side and put a series of dents all down the edge of the quarter, right at the tail light opening.
So I was able to come in and just turn that corner with the tool and get right – there’s a little mini body line that runs right along the edge and I was able to rebuild that entire line with that tool there.
Shane Jacks: Nice.
Keith Cosentino: And then, at the top of an ‘08 Silverado door, working in the upper brace had a karate chop right on that hard body line they’ve got at the top of the door and there’s just one or two locating holes for the belt molding and I was able to work through one of those and that’s the one where I said, okay, I’m just going to switch tools and try something else. Nope, there was nothing in my truck that would have hit that. I would have to drill or do something different. But with that little U-turn that it makes at the end I was able to slip right in there and get on top of it.
Shane Jacks: The small ones, man, the braces in the top of the doors, you know, the little slots that are in the top of the brace when you go through the window –
Keith Cosentino: Right.
Shane Jacks: The brace at the top of doors and they have slots, those –
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, that’s what I was working through.
Shane Jacks: Oh, okay. Okay. Gotcha.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah.
Shane Jacks: I wasn’t listening, I guess.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, those tools are phenomenal. So hop on the Dentcraft site and buy those tools. If you want to do something cool for us, in your little memo box in the order just say you heard about them on the podcast. That would be awesome for us. We don’t receive a dime or anything like that. It’s just cool for them to know that we’re promoting them on the show and we believe in them. That’s a legit tool. We’re not just telling you to buy it. They’re ridiculously good.
Shane Jacks: Yep.
Keith Cosentino: They’re going to make you money, just like every tool we talk about.
You know what? We owe you an apology as well. We talked about having the Temecula show this week and we were not able to make it happen. There’s some kind of discrepancy between the avocados and what was – there’s some other fruit product that they use there.
Shane Jacks: I think the zombie apocalypse actually happened and he’s been eating.
Keith Cosentino: We can’t reach him on his pager. There’s been word that he took off to Ferguson, Missouri, for a chance at a better job. But he might still be in Temecula or he might be dead. We’re gonna find him; we’re gonna drag him out of the gutter. We’re going to clean him up and we’re going to get him on the show and that’s coming soon. But we just weren’t able to make it happen in the time slot that we had.
So we teased you a little bit with that but it is coming, just not yet. And our Web site case study is just about wrapped up in the next week or two. We’re going to have a full report on that for you guys and take you along that path so we’re excited about that, to finally close that out.
Shane, you got anything else you want to add?
Shane Jacks: That is it, my brother.
Keith Cosentino: Okay, fellas. Till next time, get better.
[End of Audio]
Duration: 75 minutes
