Keith Cosentino: I’m Keith Cosentino, he’s Shane Jacks and this is the PDR College Podcast where we come to you every week with an hour of PDR excellence training. We are going to be helping you with your PDR skills both in the physical world and mostly in your cabeza. We will be bringing you the business skills that you can use every day to help make money at PDR. Shane, why are we talking so much about the money?
Shane Jacks: Because it’s got what plants crave
Keith Cosentino: What plants crave?
Shane Jacks: Money. Money has got what plants crave. It’s got electrolytes.
Keith Cosentino: If you’ve never see Idiocracy, then that was nonsense to you.
Shane Jacks: Correct – but if you have seen Idiocracy –
Keith Cosentino: Its pure comedy genius, regurgitated.
Shane Jacks: Comedic genius – if you haven’t seen Idiocracy, please see it.
Keith Cosentino: It’s rated R.
Shane Jacks: It will help you in your dent business immensely.
Keith Cosentino: It will not.
Shane Jacks: Not in the least.
Keith Cosentino: No. That might have been our worst intro ever. What are we talking about?
Shane Jacks: I think it was. It has to be stupid sometimes.
Keith Cosentino: All right.
Shane Jacks: You’re the one that had to because this spot was planned.
Keith Cosentino: It’s so stupid though. We decided not to use it because it was so stupid.
Shane Jacks: No we didn’t.
Keith Cosentino: I did.
Shane Jacks: Just now –
Keith Cosentino: So today we are going to talk about selling in person – selling to people that are right in front of you. Is it easy?
Shane Jacks: Yes. You give them a price and if they don’t like it you tell them to hit the road, Jack.
Keith Cosentino: That’s perfect.
Shane Jacks: Isn’t that what selling is?
Keith Cosentino: Techniques born in Temecula and honed in chicken lips.
Shane Jacks: There you go.
Keith Cosentino: Good luck finding somebody better.
Shane Jacks: Your redneck accent is getting really good.
Keith Cosentino: Is it? One of these days I will do the entire episode in accent.
Shane Jacks: You have an accent now. What do you mean in accent?
Keith Cosentino: We did this before. You said you could do any accent and I said; do California and you got all frustrated because you said that California just means no accent – the accent is no accent. It’s just perfect English.
Shane Jacks: Maybe you’re right. Let’s move on.
Keith Cosentino: I do this thing with my kid sometimes when I’m telling him stories. I’ll pick an accent and I’ll try to do the whole story in an accent and it’s so funny because they hate it. They hate it so bad.
Shane Jacks: My kids love it.
Keith Cosentino: You would think they would. Well, your kids are older, too. My kids are little. I thought they would like it the first couple of times I did it and they were like; dad, can you just read it regular? Okay. I’m going to go ahead and read it regular to you. Dad, stop it. That’s my favorite voice by the way. I’m going to go ahead and do the first half of this in that voice.
Shane Jacks: Okay – you sound like a redneck that is frightened and at the same time has a secret to tell.
Keith Cosentino: I am. It’s like an old redneck who’s got a real exciting story to tell you and he’s close to you and he pauses a lot and he likes to get real close to your face, like right by your mouth like he’s going to kiss you but he ain’t. He’s going to tell you a story. And he pauses like that lots and puts his hands in his pockets and rocks It back up on his toes and his heels and he rears back and gets right up close to your ear to tell you a little bit more of it.
I can’t do that all the way.
Shane Jacks: I know who you’re patterning that after.
Keith Cosentino: You would think it’s that guy that we met together but it’s not. That man exists in my life about once a month – an old guy, like a retired guy. They’ve got nothing in the world going on except to talk to you for a half an hour before they even get started talking to you.
Shane Jacks: That’s when I say; yo, old man. I’ve got a schedule to keep.
Keith Cosentino: So tell me about when you first started selling to people in person, because you had no formal selling training. You never had a gig where you were selling before you learned PDR, did you?
Shane Jacks: Right – no, I did not.
Keith Cosentino: So was that a tough transition for you? Do you remember it being tough?
Shane Jacks: Honestly, yes. It was tough until one point. This is something that my and your mentor – I guess you’d call it; Zig Ziglar – kind of touched on. I look back over my career and figured out that hey, he was right about this because this is when I started believing in what I was selling and believing in myself. Then it became a lot easier, but to answer your question no it was not an easy transition. Just being able to talk to people face-to-face and convey – in your mind it’s all easy when you’re driving up to the wholesaler or body shop or dealership or whatever. The script in your mind is so easy mainly because there is nothing in your mind – he says what you think he’s going to say.
And then you have your recourse after that. You think you’ve gone over it all, but you haven’t.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – I think a lot of people either don’t even consider the fact that they’re selling anything, like as a salesperson. They don’t consider that or they think it’s so basic that they don’t even really need to give it a second thought. They think; yeah, I’m selling stuff but I just tell them what we need to do and then I tell them the price and they’ll say yes I want to do it or no; I don’t and that’s it.
Shane Jacks: It’s not that easy.
Keith Cosentino: No. If you’re a decent repair guy and you’re a nice person already you can get by with zero consideration to your selling and do just fine, but you’re not going to maximize your potential on each particular job or overall. You’re going to lose some jobs or you’re not going to get the money that you actually are worth or that you deserve or you think you want or think you deserve on any of these jobs.
You’re going to be kind of a – let’s put it this way: somebody is selling all the time and if it’s not you it’s somebody else. Wholesale guys are really good at it, really good at it. I’ll use the term manipulative, because some of them are in a negative fashion but they sell to salespeople for a living. They’re hardcore sales guys – used car managers – you know? So they’re working from the minute they first talk to you or first hear you or see you – phone, in person – they’re working. They’re really good at it.
Everybody has that wholesaler who they just can’t fire even though they’re terrible. It’s like the ex-girlfriend thing, but it’s because those guys are really good sales guys. They’re selling you and you can’t even figure out why you can’t leave because they’re good. They’ve either made a friendship with you and then the business with them sucks but you’re friends with them so you won’t leave. Or they’ve done something else – used some other tactic – but you’re in their web, dude. When you can’t figure out why you keep coming back to this crappy place it’s because that dude is a great salesman.
I just thought of that for the first time now, that those guys are like the most in-the-trenches sales guys that I could consider working with as a wholesale guy because they have to sell so hard to up their sales guys.
Shane Jacks: For sure – I was talking to a – I had a broker a couple of weeks ago and he said; man I am terrible at selling wholesale gigs to dealers. How do you do it? Teach me, Yoda. I was honest with him. I was like; dude, the only ones that I sell are around here. I don’t go out and sell wholesale – I haven’t yet – I’m not saying I won’t. It’s actually something that I want to try to do just as an exercise. I think you and I have talked about this, Keith. I want to go out and land one of these big dealerships somewhere doing hail in a city far away from me just to do it.
But anyway, he asked me; he said teach me how you do it. I’m like; I don’t really do it except for the dealerships around here. He said; it’s just so freaking hard. We’re actually texting back and forth at this time. He said; it’s just so hard. You’re not going to beat him at his own game, dude. I said they’re born salesmen and you’re trying to beat them. It’s not easy to do.
Keith Cosentino: Well, let’s talk about what I would do or what I do do when I’m selling anything. The first thing, the very first thing I do is greet the person in a friendly manner. That kind of goes without saying I think. Hey bro, you know –
Shane Jacks: Now there are times when that is appropriate.
Keith Cosentino: We’ll circle back to that, but the first thing I do is determine what this person is looking for and what they want and what they need or what they think they want or what they think they need. You could have the world’s best offer but if this person doesn’t need it or think they need then it falls on deaf ears. So the first thing to do to sell to somebody is to ask questions. Ask them what they’re looking for.
Keep in mind that I don’t live in that world either; the hail world where I’m trying to land some dealership in the middle of Chicken Lips that I’ve never been to, but if I was, if you were to abduct me and send me there tomorrow and said; you’ve got to land this store, the first thing I would do is find the decision maker. Secondly I would ask him what he’s looking for out of the situation. What does he want? What are his concerns? Does he want to get the cars out fast? Does he want to money off of the deal? Does he want to sell with the hail? Does he want a powerhouse of 15 guys here tomorrow? What is he looking for?
He might not know and you might have to coach him a little bit and ask him a few set-up questions, but you have to hone down on what your prospect is looking for and then once you know that then you can start selling around that. When you’re new you’re going to be going on the fly a little bit, but once you ask this question in the same scenario 20, 30, or 50 to 100 times you’re going to find out there’s really like four or five basic things that your prospects could possibly be looking for. You’ll have an angle that you’ll use to sell for each one.
So in the retail world it’s give or take five things, but something like; well, I’m looking for the cheapest repair possible. I’m looking to not paint my car. I’m looking to have this done at my place of work or my home. I don’t want to make a claim. I do want to make a claim – things like that. I don’t know how many there are. There are probably ten but there’s just –
Shane Jacks: I’m hiding it or getting it done before my husband sees it.
Keith Cosentino: I haven’t had one of those in a long time, but I used to get a lot of things like –
Shane Jacks: I get them fairly often.
Keith Cosentino: I guess I had one the other day, but it feels like I used to have more of them. I’ve had somewhere I’m like; here’s my card and here is the location of the closest WEAVE because your life is scary right now. I’ve had women like shaking like I have to have this fixed before he gets home. Oh my gosh –
Shane Jacks: The closest what? What did you say?
Keith Cosentino: WEAVE – a woman escaping a violent environment or area or something like that.
Shane Jacks: Oh. I’ve never heard that.
Keith Cosentino: It’s a big deal. That’s not anything to joke about, for sure but I was like; serious. This is scary. This is like your spouse and you’re legit afraid of him? That is not cool. It takes all the goofiness out of that story. It makes it serious.
Shane Jacks: Yeah – I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone scared like that.
Keith Cosentino: I have for sure – twice.
Shane Jacks: Most of the time in situations like with me it’s like; I’ve done this 19 times already and he’s really tired of it. That’s the kind of deals that I do for the most part.
Keith Cosentino: I’ve had those, too – I keep backing the corner of the car into every corner of the garage – it’s always a garage, too. I get out there and it’s like a covered parking spot.
So that’s what I do when I’m selling something. I’ve got to find out what they’re looking for. Any time you’ve made a nice purchase somewhere and you’ve had a nice interaction with a salesperson, if you go back and look they’ve probably asked you a few questions first about what you were looking for. Otherwise you’re going to spend 10 minutes talking about stuff that doesn’t matter to them. Do you know what I mean?
Shane Jacks: Yeah, even when you go somewhere as simple as the clothing department or whatever in a clothing store – you go in the department store and you’re looking for shirts or slacks and the guy is standing over there staring at you. And he’s got the tape around his neck. You’re looking for one certain item and they come over and go; can I help you? And then you give them a few clues, cues that they should pick up on and then they just barely point you in one direction. You know, I am more liable to leave there and go somewhere else.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – you know what? I shop for clothes hardly ever but once in a while – my wife shops for clothes all the time – she buys all the clothing for our family, me included because I hate to shop. But once in a while we’ll go together. She likes to go to high-end stores. When you go to a nice, high-end store and it’s the sales person that’s going to go with you to different departments of the clothing; they’re going to hang out with you the whole time. The first thing they do is say; okay, what kind of clothes are we looking for today? What’s on your mind?
She’ll say; we need a pair of jeans and a shirt for this event or whatever and then once they have that – boom, they’re off and running. They’ll say; okay, I know exactly what we need. Come here, and here, and here – we’ll look at these three things. It’s never 20 things. Its three things.
Shane Jacks: And then when you say no to the first one what do they do?
Keith Cosentino: They bring you another thing so you have three again.
Shane Jacks: There you go.
Keith Cosentino: It depends. That depends on the individual salesperson’s techniques. Me personally if I was selling and they said I don’t like this one then that’s even easier. We’re just going to have choice A or choice B. Do you like this or that? Unless I had something else that fit more with the first two options and not with the third and I’d bring another third back in to make them all more similar choices. That’s the individual salesperson’s style. They’re a little bit different, but it’s never 25 different choices. You can have too many things to do when you’re out. If there are too many choices that’s basic when you’re buying something or you’re selling something. You can’t give 50 options.
Like when somebody calls you for a retail job if you start saying; well, you could make it an insurance claim or you could take it to the body shop or you could take it to the body shop and I could do the work there and then we could bill your insurance company. Or I could come to your house and do it and you can make a claim and I can probably waive your deductible if you make a claim. Or I could come to your house and I could just do it and you could not make a claim, but you’ve got to know how much your deductible is. So find that out and then – you just keep giving all these choices and they’re like; ugh – okay, well I’m out of here.
I’ve got to figure this out. This is a lot of stuff. So you’ve got to narrow everything down to just one or two choices. You can do this or that, but 32 choices are too many. Baskin Robbins is going to go into bankruptcy because there are too many choices. I can’t choose.
Shane Jacks: That’s why they’re going into bankruptcy – too many flavors.
Keith Cosentino: I don’t know that they’re going into bankruptcy but I do know around here they are with the Togo’s now.
Shane Jacks: They’re with what?
Keith Cosentino: They’re with a Togo’s Sandwich shop. Is that a regional place? You don’t have Togo’s Sandwiches?
Shane Jacks: No – no Togo’s.
Keith Cosentino: They branded them together because they both don’t do that much business. Apparently they can’t sustain their own building so they’re now selling sandwiches and ice cream.
Shane Jacks: Yeah. They’re not doing so well around here either, but they are in independent buildings.
Keith Cosentino: Really – with all 31 flavors?
Shane Jacks: For the most part. I was trying to make a joke, but I can’t even think. Never mind.
Keith Cosentino: Do you want to get that little, tiny spoon and taste everything – 31 different tastes.
Shane Jacks: I’m full – thanks.
Keith Cosentino: I forgot what the first one tasted like. Honestly I think tasting ice cream is like when you’re a kid; that’s some of the most fun part of it, I think is getting excited tasting the different flavors but everybody eats frozen yogurt now apparently around here. And a lot of the places don’t let you get your own samples. They’re like; do you want to taste anything and they bring you that stupid little cup out there and then they fill it up for you. I don’t why that was okay at the ice cream joint but its make me upset at a frozen yogurt place.
Shane Jacks: Because you’re emotionally unstable – that bothers you.
Keith Cosentino: I think it’s because there’s only one person working at those things and sometimes there’s five or ten customers in there. All I want to do is just make sure I like this flavor before I fill a cup. I don’t even eat frozen yogurt all that often. My kids like it and I’ll have some of it when I go there, but –
Shane Jacks: That stuff is absolutely awesome.
Keith Cosentino: Man, we get off on tangents.
Shane Jacks: Tell me about it.
Keith Cosentino: Note – frozen yogurt will not make it into the final cut.
Shane Jacks: You started it.
Keith Cosentino: So when you walk into a dealership and you’re deciding and you’re trying to bag it on a local level – not in a town that you don’t know for hail – but local for your door ding route, what do you do first? I get this question a lot from guys who are relatively new in the business and they’re still trying to establish themselves a little route. They say; I just don’t know how to get these accounts. Or if they’re a little more cocky they’ll say; aw, everybody is just concerned with the price around here. It’s just the price.
Shane Jacks: Yes – and there is some truth to that. We shouldn’t fool ourselves there, Keith.
Keith Cosentino: No. I’m not trying to set you up that much, but that in the wholesale world that is like the number one thing. You know me – I’m always talking about selling around other angles, but a lot of these chains of command are so deep that it’s really hard. There might be one or two guys on the front line that understand the value of what you’re bringing to the table if you’re a high-level technician, but they have a problem conveying that message all the way to the top and they’ll stay focused on the price.
I have a couple of accounts like they keep calling me and I’ll say; if you guys are going to keep calling me let’s just come by on a regular basis because I’m ripping your head off every time you call me. I can give you a better rate if I’m coming out on a regular basis. And they make a run to the top and it never sticks. They stay with the cheap guy who hacks stuff up and they call me back; I’m going to charge them $400 to fix a dent I know their options are gone. At this point it’s either me or the body shop.
Shane Jacks: Right – so you’re asking what I’d do. The first when I walk in, if you – I think we’ve touched on this a little bit in the past, Keith – the people on the “bottom,” the salespeople when you first walk in, I don’t ignore them. I’m going to speak to them and shake their hand – who are you looking for? You’ll see a lot of people – well, you don’t see it, but maybe it’s just me before I actually starting doing things the right way – instead of walking and saying; hey sir, how can I help you? I’m looking for the manager. See you around.
Make friends everywhere you go or at least acquaintances and be friendly to the guys on the front. So anyway, you can ask them who the manager is but introduce yourself. I’m Shane. I’m with Dent Pro, blah, blah, blah or I’m Keith – I’m with Bull’s Eye. How are you doing today? Make a little bit of a run at them to befriend them first off. What say you?
Keith Cosentino: Well, here’s what I say. It really depends on the type of dealership because if it’s a big, monster mega-dealer those guys are like the clown crew of the century at the front line of any of these big stores. They have such high turnover rates and they sell so many cars that it’s a constant flow of idiots in the front line because it’s a straight commission job and it doesn’t cost them anything to bring a guy on. So they’ll bring him and tell him how to take people’s information and hopefully he sticks around for a week or two. Man, any second you spend with those guys is a waste of time at some of those dealerships.
Now, some of the really small dealerships like more the boutique places or maybe just more small-town kind of guys it’s different because you’re going to have guys that have been there forever and they know everybody and they’re respected. But at these monster places you don’t need to say a word to those guys because even if you do it doesn’t matter if you do or not. They don’t have any say whatsoever. They don’t even know the process of reconditioning. They’re just there to sell cars.
But this is 2014. If you can’t find out who a used car manager is before you ever walk on that lot you’re probably not alive. Just find out who you’re going to be talking to and go in there and talk to them. That’s a high rejection sales position is trying to get big accounts. It’s just like cold calling people for insurance or something. You’re going to get 52 no’s before somebody even says maybe. So you’ve got to have really thick skin.
Shane Jacks: I guess it’s just the difference between California pricks and Carolina gentlemen.
Keith Cosentino: Maybe.
Shane Jacks: We do have a fairly high turnover – I don’t do very much dealership work at all anymore so I haven’t actually cold-called – I don’t even remember the last time that was.
Keith Cosentino: I know. That’s why I wanted to talk about it, because when you get so busy – I haven’t called on a dealership – they called me and I think; I can’t do that. I don’t have any time for that stuff. But I know that’s not the reality for most people. After so many years of not going in and cold-calling you forget how hard it really is. It’s really hard. It’s not easy to do. Its hard work and you’ve got to have stones and you’ve got to be able to take rejection really well because they’re going to give it to you hard and fast.
Shane Jacks: A lot – it doesn’t matter how good you are. You’re still going to get rejected. You’re still not going to be able to prove anything right away anyway.
Keith Cosentino: Well, so what would you do? With those things being said – its high rejection and it’s hard to prove something – what would you do? What would be the first thing you do?
Shane Jacks: If what – If they’re rejecting me?
Keith Cosentino: No. You’re trying to land this account and you meet the used car manager and he says; well, we’ve got a guy.
Shane Jacks: Well, I believe it depends on are those his exact words – we’ve got a guy?
Keith Cosentino: Yeah. I’d say that’s the most common thing to hear.
Shane Jacks: Okay. Well, just because you have it you have salesmen also, but if I told you I could give you a salesman who’s going to sell you 70 cars a month are you going to take him in? His ears may perk up, so I think you have to set yourself apart but you can’t do right away. Everyone can come in and say; I’m the best in the world. I’m the best salesman in the world. I’m the best dent guy in the world. I’m the best blank in the world.
So kind of leave it open – hey, if you have anything that your guy can’t do give me a call.
Keith Cosentino: Let me add to that and make it a little bit more powerful –
Shane Jacks: And I’m paraphrasing –
Keith Cosentino: I know. If you have a dealership you’ve really got your eye on you want to go there ideally – if this is your main goal; like you really want this place – go there before they open, before anybody is there in the morning and take your time to walk around the lot and find something that’s really ugly that you know you could fix. Keep that car in mind. Maybe write it down or maybe not, but keep that car in mind and when you walk up and see that guy and you say just what you’ve said, Shane – a lot of people can say they’re the best but there’s no replacement for showing you what I can do.
I’ll tell you what. You know that whatever car you’ve picked there, that black Accord, the fender is all crushed in. Your guy obviously couldn’t fix it or wouldn’t fix. If you’ve got a minute come out here with me and let me show you what I’m talking about. I’m going to show you how I can fix that for you and get it out of the body shop.
They still might say no, but leaving an open-ended statement like; hey if you ever have something, call me. That’s probably never going to happen. But if you say; come on out here for a minute. I’m going to show you something and I’m going to do it for free for you just to show you what I can do and I’m going to leave. I want you to remember this – he’ll probably say all right. At least you have a better chance of getting your tools out and proving to him what you could fix. Get ready when you’re done for that dude to be vaporized or not even care to see it.
That’s happened to me too. Like I’m going to do a demo for this guy and he’s going to be blown away. And you’re done and they’re like; oh yeah – he left. Oh my gosh these guys are terrible. But try to get a cell phone number or something and stay in contact with the guy. It’s really tough. You’re going to get a good read off of these guys when you first meet them. If they’re treating you like that the first time they meet you it never changes. They’re going to treat you like that forever. That’s just the guy they are – the guy who would have someone do work for him and then leave the place. They’re never going to change.
Shane Jacks: Well –
Keith Cosentino: No – trust me on this.
Shane Jacks: Yes – no, no, no I don’t and here’s why. Those guys are just as busy as you and I, Keith. If you’re fixing this thing for free that car is going to be there in two hours when he comes back.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, but if they’re –
Shane Jacks: He can still look at it.
Keith Cosentino: But if he’s a good –
Shane Jacks: When I ask him if I can fix that I’m not going to say; are you going to be here in an hour to look at this? I mean I don’t take it personally that he may have had to leave for some reason.
Keith Cosentino: I’ll take it personally because the guys that I continue to work for and that I have respect for – they would take the 30 seconds to come out back and say; hey, I appreciate that you’re doing this. I’m not going to be here when you’re done probably. I have to leave. So here’s my card, or whatever. They would make some kind of contact. They wouldn’t just leave you hanging and just not care about you as an individual.
But there are guys that I work for that would do that and I still don’t like them. They are the key to some of these large dealerships, but they’re jerks and they were jerks when I met them and they’re still jerks. Even though they may be friendly to me they’re not considerate of other people’s time.
I don’t know if they play this game in every other part of the country. I imagine they do, but it’s the invisible game where you need to talk to XYZ manager and you’ve been dealing with them for a year and he’s busy all the time like you say. And you show up there to talk to him and you’re five, ten feet away from him and you’re being respectful and not going up to him and getting right in his business because he’s obviously right in the middle of something. But then he pretends like you’re invisible and continues his task and then he’ll like walk away and out of the room. I don’t think it’s just a California phenomenon.
Shane Jacks: Oh, no. That happens constantly here also.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – if you play the invisible game then you’re a jerk and you’re going to stay a jerk forever as far as I’m concerned.
Shane Jacks: Uh – we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this.
Keith Cosentino: Really?
Shane Jacks: People get busy. Dude, I’ve done it –
Keith Cosentino: There is no way if someone was waiting for you in your office, ten feet from you with his hands in his pockets and he’s been staring at you for five minutes but he’s being respectful and just sat on your couch. There’s no way –?
Shane Jacks: No, no, no – I’m not talking about that situation. I’m talking about you’re out back and you’ve been out there for an hour and a half –
Keith Cosentino: Oh – the guy that left?
Shane Jacks: On this crushed fender and he gets a phone call and he has to leave. You’re a guy trying to sell to him. If he leaves, he leaves. He’s going to see the fender later. It’s your job to come back; hey, how did you like the fender? If he blows you off then, you know what? That’s it. You’re done.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – all right.
Shane Jacks: Anyway, we’re arguing about nothing.
Keith Cosentino: No, not really. What we’re talking about is that these dudes are hard to deal with.
Shane Jacks: Yes, they can be very hard to deal with. When I said earlier go in and tell them; hey, if you have something in the future – don’t leave that open-ended. I wasn’t finished there. We’ve talked about this before. You’ve got to keep going back in there. If there’s nothing out there crushed that you can work on like Keith was talking about, then yeah – saying that and leaving that open and leaving your card and then showing up in another week or two weeks; hey is there anything out there you want me to –? Even if you’re not looking, did anything come up?
That constant being in their face is – you asked me Keith what I would do. That’s what I would do. I would be in their face once every week to two weeks even if it’s – you don’t want to take up a bunch of their time because then you are like a telemarketer to them. But just; hey, I just want to stop by and say hey again. Here’s my card. If you get anything give me a call.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – so those things we talked about, being in person and saying a few things – those are all important, but you can drill down even deeper in how you deliver that message. And I’ve talked about this guy before on the show, but this author named Nicholas Boothman is one of my favorites who really opened my eyes to communicating with people on a personal basis, like person-to-person. And the things he talks about are mostly body language and communicating with people in their preferred method of communication.
He categorizes people three ways: people can be kinesthetic, visual, or auditory communicators. Kinesthetic means they’re concerned with the way things feel. So these guys are usually a little more fat, they have facial hair, they wear comfortable clothing – like the way things feel are the most important to them. Visual – these are like the snazzy-dresser guys. They’re usually a little more trim, their hair is always in place, they’re not disheveled – they’re all put together and the way things look to them are paramount.
And then auditory – obviously those guys are most concerned with the way things sound. So they’re very well-spoken, they’re good listeners and really good communicators. So he gives you some tools to quickly judge what type of person you’re dealing with and once you’re aware of that you can craft your delivery to suit that type of person.
So when you talk about – when you’re asking questions like – let’s just take that crushed fender we’re talking about. If you think the guy is a kinesthetic and he’s kind of fat and comfortable, like his clothes are a little more loose and he’s kind of an easy speaker – if you can get him out there you want him to like put his hands on that dent and feel it. When you say; can you feel how crushed-in this is? You wouldn’t do that to a guy who is visual. You’d want to say; look at that. Look at how terrible that looks. Look how it looks like the whole fender is pushed in like it looks like somebody backed into it. You’re going to talk about images and how things look.
And with auditory you would say something like; you can just hear the customers slamming their doors and driving away when this crushed-in fender. Or you could just imagine the sound this thing made when it got hit, just crinkling all up and metal bending. So when you determine what type person it is you can craft the message to them.
It’s really interesting stuff. I had never, ever considered anything like that. If you read that book and you let him take you through all the steps of how you kind of break that down its really powerful stuff. So in addition to determining what type of person they are he talks about syncing their body language. It’s really interesting if you think about groups of people when they’re hanging around together they think of all kinds of groups of people who are just standing around talking. You could picture like thugs on a street – they’re hanging around in a group. You could picture guys at a sales meeting. You could picture kids in a playground.
Any time you have a group of people that are in sync and that are enjoying each other’s company if you look at them they’re all carrying their bodies in a similar fashion. You know those thugs on a street corner are all slouchy. They’ve got their hands in their pockets and they’re leaning up against stuff, but they’re all holding their bodies in a similar fashion. In the sales meeting everybody is a little more upright. They’re all sitting in their chairs in a similar fashion and they all have an alert kind of posture in their shoulders and their heads.
Everyone in a group is acting in a similar fashion because that’s what is naturally comfortable for those people who are friends. So if you were to walk into that group of thugs on the street and you’re wearing a suit and they’re all wearing street clothes and you’re upright, with your hands in your pockets and you have this perfect posture they will reject you quickly. You don’t sync with their style and their body language.
And if you think about that sales meeting, if you came in there and you leaned sideways in your chair and put your hands in your pockets you would stick out there and they would wonder that this dude is strange. Why is he acting like this? So, once you start paying attention to that you realize that if you want to be a part of that group and you want to put this individual at ease you need to mimic whatever body position they’re displaying.
When you first hear that you think that sounds like a recipe for a bad comedy. You’re going to walk up to this guy – and it’s not just for groups, right – if you have one guy you’re trying to talk to or whom you’re starting a conversation with and he kind of leans up against a car and puts his hand in his pocket but you stand up straight and cross your arms you guys are out of sync. You’re acting in two different fashions. Your goal here is to build a rapport with this person quickly so taking that lesson from those groups of people we talked about on an individual basis, what you need to do is mimic their body language and make them feel comfortable without them knowing.
You think that they’re going to notice it right away. You think if this guy leans to the side and puts his right hand in his pocket and I do the same thing he’s going to say; hey, why are you copying me? What are you doing? But they don’t notice it because it just makes them feel comfortable.
I’ve been doing for – I don’t know; five or seven years or something – you’d think that for the first three months that somebody is going to call you out, but it never happens. All it does is make people comfortable. They cross their arms; you cross your arms. They cross their feet; you cross your feet. And you don’t do it like the second they do it, but you’ll notice when they start doing things if you’re doing something different and you just kind of slowly morph back into what they’re doing.
Once you get this body language game down you apply the same mimicking procedure to the whole communication, from the tone of voice they use to the speed of their speech. When you think about the normal speed of your speech and the way you talk to somebody and when somebody talks – if you’re talking like me I would consider myself an average speed talker – when you’re speaking to someone and they speak extra slow you want to tear your hair out, right? You can’t communicate with them, but they feel the same way about you so your end goal is to do business with this person so they’re not going to change.
You need to change. So if they speak a little bit more slowly then you speak just a little bit more slowly or if they speak quick and fast then you speed it up a little bit and you speak quick and fast with them. You try to communicate on the levels that are innate to that individual that you’re trying to do business with. When you’re conscious of this stuff it makes it really, really easy. You’ll find the conversations flow a lot smoother than they would have otherwise. You read that book, right Shane?
Shane Jacks: Yeah. I was really not for years, I guess not totally aware that I was doing exactly what you’re talking about. Not to the T – I wouldn’t cross my legs or cross my arms, but body language-wise, if they’re – I’ll give you an example. If it’s an older gentleman and he is apparently having trouble walking and he’s bent over, slouched or has a cane I am not going to have my shoulders back when that gentleman approaches me. I will actually – and I’ve done this for years – I will actually slouch my shoulders just a bit. You don’t want to convey an image of weakness or anything of course, but like you said kind of morph into where they’re at.
If it’s a big guy and he’s a big, muscular guy and he walks I’ll actually pull my shoulders back just a bit, you know. If he’s extremely confident I’m going to be a little more confident. And the talking thing I’ve done forever. In this area the demographics here – we have a lot of northerners moving down here for the weather and the economy and many different things – the taxes and all this good stuff, plus manufacturing and people moving here for jobs higher up and whatnot, they’re moving here so if a gentleman from New York comes in I am not going to talk to him the same way as I am a 60 year old man from Pumpkintown.
And yes, that is a true town close to here. We have Pumpkintown, Sugar Tit – Pumpkintown, South Carolina; Sugar Tit, South Carolina; Possom Kingdom, South Carolina, so –
Keith Cosentino: You’re making these up.
Shane Jacks: No, I’m not. No, I am not.
Keith Cosentino: Possom Tit?
Shane Jacks: Possom Kingdom. Sugar Tit. These are all within 30 miles of where I’m sitting right now. Pumpkintown.
Keith Cosentino: I’m going to use all of those today in describing things that don’t have to do – like if I keep eating all this kick I’m going to go to Pumpkintown. And I’m going to tell my wife; come over here, Sugar Tit.
Shane Jacks: That’s terrible.
Keith Cosentino: Hey, it’s a real place.
Shane Jacks: Sugar Tit is a mountain. We call it Sugar Tit. I don’t know, Keith. But anyway, getting back on topic –
Keith Cosentino: My kids are running around crazy. This place is Possom Kingdom.
Shane Jacks: Any who, back on topic – I’m not going to speak to those two individuals the same way. I’m not going to talk the same way –
Keith Cosentino: Pumpkintown?
Shane Jacks: Okay. Do you want a cool story about Pumpkintown? Do we have time for that?
Keith Cosentino: Of course we do.
Shane Jacks: Pumpkintown, when I was a teenager – Pumpkintown because of its name – it was very close to where I grew up.
Keith Cosentino: Of course it was.
Shane Jacks: Pumpkintown Grocery, this little one-stop light – and it’s not a stop light; it’s just a flashing red light town – there was a place called Pumpkintown Grocery and every year they would buy from whoever grew it the state’s winning pumpkin. So this frigging massive pumpkin would be sitting outside of Pumpkintown Grocery, right?
Keith Cosentino: Appropriate.
Shane Jacks: Well, we used to go stealing pumpkins the last couple of years I was in high school and we would steal them from individuals, porches, and throw them in the principal’s yard on Halloween Night. We stole the state’s largest pumpkin many years ago and now I could be convicted because I told this story. So there’s my Pumpkintown Grocery story.
Keith Cosentino: What did you do with it?
Shane Jacks: We threw it in the yard of the principal.
Keith Cosentino: Was it small enough to throw? Or did you just roll it?
Shane Jacks: We threw it in the yard of the principal. Can you see the principal’s yard?
Keith Cosentino: Was it small enough to throw?
Shane Jacks: We just kind of rolled it out of the back of a – this was an operation. I think the last year we did it we had six pickup trucks and like 20 guys and we stole hundreds of pumpkins off of people’s porches and the Pumpkintown Grocery, et cetera, et cetera. I have no Sugar Tit stories.
Keith Cosentino: Doesn’t Possom Kingdom have a race track?
Shane Jacks: Yeah – I didn’t know this until recently – I think it’s the fastest go-cart dirt track in America or something like that.
Keith Cosentino: How do I know that?
Shane Jacks: Do what?
Keith Cosentino: Why do I know that?
Shane Jacks: It was on Facebook I believe.
Keith Cosentino: Oh, you’re right.
Shane Jacks: Somebody said something about it.
Keith Cosentino: So, we’ve got a lot of stuff here about selling in person and making that connection, but making a connection is really, really important. I would strongly advise anybody who’s into getting better at dent removal – and that’s you if you’re listening – to go get that book. Get it on an audio book: How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less. Or there’s a version of it that’s kind of more geared towards business: How to Connect in Business in 90 Seconds or Less. Both are great.
Shane Jacks: Really good books – I did the 90 Seconds or Less – I believe it was the one that I read, Keith.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – I like that one a little bit better. It’s a general one and not necessarily for business, but I like them both. Get it on audio book.
Shane Jacks: We’ve got to do a show on that.
Keith Cosentino: What do you mean?
Shane Jacks: On that book, basically everything that’s said in that book.
Keith Cosentino: Well, we’re basically doing it now. Nobody is going to tell it better than the author himself. I mean I could paraphrase all the stuff but I’m going to screw a lot of it up, honestly. When you read a book you don’t assimilate every single word into your mind but you get the general idea. I’ve listened to it 50 different times so I’ve retained a lot of it, but I couldn’t teach you. I could give you the highlights and you’ve got to read the book.
But I would strongly suggest getting that and listening to it; in between PDR College episodes listening to How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less and you’re going to learn a ton of this stuff. What’s really cool about it is that in our line of work you can listen to the truck, hop out, and put it right to work right now. It’s almost like you’re at a workshop. You listen to the instruction and you hop out and you put it to work.
One of the other things that he talks about that’s really important that I’ll share here is making that first connection face-to-face with like a handshake. There are a lot of steps that he has that he wants you to go through before you do it. When you start being conscious of all these things it makes your introduction really powerful.
So, the first thing he talks about is having an open body language. You’re meeting someone for the first time, right so you’re knocking on someone’s door or you’re walking up to somebody. Open body language means your arms are out and they’re open and your palms – you’re not holding anything; you don’t have a clipboard or a pen like you’re going to take a report and write down numbers or stats – you just have open hands and an open body language.
Your arms are open; they’re not shoved in your pockets or crossed. If somebody walks up to you with their hands in their pockets you may or may not consciously think of this, but you are trying to determine what this person is, why they’re in your life and why are their hands in their pockets. If you have any friends who are in law enforcement you know that if somebody walks up with their hands in their pockets they’re like two seconds away from getting a gun drawn on them just because they don’t know what’s going on.
So you take your hands out of your pockets and you can remove any kind of fear, whether it’s real or subconscious that somebody might have that they don’t know what you’re up to. Take your hands out of your pockets and leave them open; your palms are kind of facing the person. Secondly, you’re going to make sure you make eye contact. You can try to make it a game. Making eye contact is harder than you think if you don’t do it on a regular basis so you can make it a game for yourself and try to determine the color of the person’s eyes so you’ll make sure you look at them.
So you have this open body language and you’ve made direct eye contact with them and you’re going to make a nice, big smile directed right at them. He calls it a beam. So you have open body language, you make eye contact, and make a big smile and then you be the first to initiate a Hi, or Hello or whatever the proper term is for your geographic area and what people like to say for that type of person that you’re dealing with.
While you’re doing all of this you lean just slightly in towards them and get a little bit closer. Do you notice that with the people you’re most intimate in your life with – the people whom you talk closely with in your life or your children or really close friends – when you talk you get a little bit closer to them? So you’re kind of making that same motion of getting a little closer – just a couple of inches – and making that eye contact and that smile and then of course shaking hands. Some people screw that up pretty good too, but a nice handshake is pretty basic. Do I need to talk about that – a handshake?
Shane Jacks: Well yeah – don’t be limp wristed or limp fisted –
Keith Cosentino: Don’t dangle your fingers down like rain and let them grab them. That’s not a handshake.
Shane Jacks: That is the worst thing ever. That angers me when somebody does that with me.
Keith Cosentino: Okay. We’ll talk about a good handshake. All of those elements that we just talked about are present. The hardest part about shaking hands for a man, I think is shaking hands with a woman because you don’t want to squeeze them too hard or not hard enough and show that you’re a man, but it’s hard to describe. If you can’t do it right besides what not to do – I can tell you what not to do – don’t make your arm super-limp like you’re trying to pull it out of a giant bowl of spaghetti.
Just make a firm grip, squeeze with authority but not trying to rip anybody’s hand off. Make eye contact, shake their hand once or twice and break on out of there. Don’t leave it there too long and don’t leave it limp. Don’t shake it too many times. That set of instructions can be applied across several different –
Shane Jacks: You had to say it, didn’t you? Yes, we were all thinking it.
Keith Cosentino: Not me. I was just trying to describe a handshake and then you started laughing. One other cool tip that he gives when you’re trying to build a rapport with somebody – and this is like a magic thing – but when you’re talking with somebody and you’ve already introduced yourself and you’re having a conversation and you want to really make a connection with them you’ve got to touch them. I know that sounds crazy for a lot of people, like you’re going to put your hands on a stranger and you’re going to touch them? The easiest place to touch somebody that would never be considered strange or weird is on their elbow.
You just give them a little tap on their elbow almost like you’re selecting an icon on an iPhone – just a light, little tap – and not with one finger but just with your fingers together. You just make a little tap when you’re getting ready to initiate another point – like you want to point to the car or something – just make that little connection and there’s something magical that happens when you physically touch somebody.
Some guys who are really back-slappy kind of guys you can touch their shoulder because they’re those kind of guys, but if it’s like a lady or something like that you just give them a little tap on the elbow or on the side, somewhere where it could never be considered weird or strange. You don’t want to touch their – their cheek.
Shane Jacks: You weren’t going to say cheek.
Keith Cosentino: No, I really was.
Shane Jacks: You’re a liar.
Keith Cosentino: I’m keeping it clean.
Shane Jacks: When you said something magical happens when you touch them – what went through my mind was; oh yeah.
Keith Cosentino: So listen – all of this stuff can be super cheesy if you look at it like that. If you try to explain it to someone else who’s not interested in learning this you’ll sound cheesy. I probably sound cheesy to a lot of you guys, but the bottom line is this stuff makes me money and tons of it. So learn it if you want; don’t learn it if you don’t want to. I don’t care, but I’m sharing with you stuff that’s made me money.
It’s like when somebody talks to you about yoga. Yoga – that’s retarded – that’s for girls or it’s for hippies and I used to think the same thing. I don’t do yoga, but I have done it and it’s really hard. If you just told me; we’re going to do this kickass body positioning sport I’d be like, that sounds hard, dude but I’ll try it. When you call it yoga it sounds lame. Until you really try something and give it a shot, don’t knock it. I wouldn’t be sharing it with you if it didn’t make money and it does so if it sounds touchy-feely and stupid – if you want to progress try and push past that and at least buy the book, listen to it, and try to put it into action. You’ll be amazed by how much easier those connections go.
Once that goes, once somebody builds this little rapport with you in the car business they call them lay-down deals. They are just ready to do whatever deal you want. They’re happy to go. There’s no more hard selling; there’s no more they-don’t-trust-you and that kind of stuff; it just makes everything go more smoothly. One point that Nicholas Boothman points out is that he says; when you say I like somebody, if you’ve ever met somebody at a party and you leave and you talk to your wife or something and you say, you know I like that guy. What you’re really saying is; I am like that guy.
You go back and think; why did I like him? Well, he’s into the same stuff I’m into. His jokes are just like mine. He’s sometimes a similar body type of person. It’s just that they have a lot of things in common so when you say; I like him, you’re usually saying I am like him. So, when you want people to like you, you’re trying to be more like them. You’ll find people saying things after you learn this stuff like; I don’t know what it was about him, but I really liked that guy. He’s really cool. That guy is a cool guy.
Usually you’re not portraying somebody that you’re not. You’re not like faking it. You’re just moving your body and delivering your words in a slightly different manner than you normally would, but it doesn’t feel like you’re masquerading as someone else. I can tell you that firsthand, because that’s something I was worried about. I don’t want to be fake; I want to be the person that I am, but you’re not being fake.
He’s not teaching you 35 different things to talk about. He’s just telling you a way to send your message. It’s just like you want to send it by email, text, or phone. It’s the same message. You’re just going to send it in a slightly different fashion and in a way that it gets through better to that recipient.
Shane Jacks: Plane in the background?
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – you’ve got planes.
Shane Jacks: Well, now we need automobiles.
Keith Cosentino: Of course I’ve got trains. All the most affluent people live near train tracks. Don’t you know that?
Shane Jacks: Oh, okay.
Keith Cosentino: How else do you think I get my cash shipped to me?
Shane Jacks: The book How to Connect in 90 Seconds – what’s it called, Keith?
Keith Cosentino: There’s two: How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less and How to Connect in Business in 90 Seconds or Less.
Shane Jacks: Okay. The one that I read was How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less and thing – although I’m not going to say it completely changed everything that I do – it did make me more aware of it and I have tweaked it a little bit. Although I haven’t yet touched anybody on the elbow I am actually going to try that, Keith. I’ve done it on the shoulder of guys that are real jovial, really loud – I’ll slap them on the shoulder or whatever – but I’m going to start doing that. I’ll do it a little bit at a time. I’m going to start it on gentlemen before I start it on ladies.
Keith Cosentino: If it feels uncomfortable here’s when I do it: it’s when we’re standing out in front of the car and I’m making the transition from standing up to crouching down and really pointing out something specific. So right before I do that I’ll give them a tap and then I’ll go and show them what I was looking to show them. You can’t just stand right in front of them and reach out and touch – they’d be like; why are you touching my elbow?
Shane Jacks: Yes. There has to be an action after that. There has to be something really strong after that contact.
Keith Cosentino: You can do a strong action or a strong statement. If you have something really strong to say give them a little touch and then tell them some statement that’s going to blow their hair back. That’s when I do it.
Shane Jacks: For sure – but anyway that book has good stuff. Read it, digest it, use it, do it and you’ll close more sales and you will make people feel a lot more comfortable in front of you while you are making that sale.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – if you guys have experience with it and you try it and you like it, come on to PDRCollege.com and leave some comments for everybody to show them that it’s working for you. We would love that.
Shane Jacks: Yeah – we love those comments – we really like the comments. So just keep leaving those comments or start leaving them if you haven’t left any yet. We want to hear from you how this stuff is affecting you and you’re putting it into practice.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah, because ultimately we’re doing this for you guys. There’s no money changing hands here. Shane and I are just doing this because we like to share and we like to help guys and we ultimately feel like we’re helping the industry. So it means a lot to us. That’s how we get paid is with your comments and feedback, so take a second and let us know that you’re listening and that you’re enjoying it. And communicate with us.
Shane Jacks: For sure – one last thing, Keith that I wanted to touch on before we move on to our tool review today. It’s whenever you get a no or a maybe and it feels like everything is a no, don’t be offended. A lot of times that no is going to come out really, really quickly – especially on the wholesale side of the things where you’re cold-calling like we were speaking of earlier. But even when a customer pulls up there are times when I go through the entire – I’m not going to say spiel; I wanted to, I really did – when you go through your entire; I’m just going to call it a pitch. You can do whatever you want to me in a few minutes here, Keith.
Chastise me, but you know what I mean when I say when I go through my entire –
Keith Cosentino: Informational session –
Shane Jacks: Informational session and informational enlightenment session – how about that? So even when we go through all of that at the end sometimes there’s still going to be a no or there’s still going to be a little bit of – they may back off just a little bit – you know what? Some people, they’re just trying to do to you in reverse – they’re just trying to get a better deal. They’re trying to test you and see how far you will back off. Don’t be offended when there’s a no or a maybe or when there are questions such as; is that the best you can do? Don’t pop back with; well yeah, bucko. Go find somebody else.
If that is the best you can do hold your ground, but don’t be offended when people come back at you. This was really hard for me at times, especially when you’re running at 900 miles an hour and you feel like they’re wasting your time. Don’t be offended when they say no or when they back off a little bit. It’s a part of the process. Just keep selling.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – it’s not personal. Just try to find out what’s hanging them up. Try to close them again and try to close them again. And remember that part of negotiating is making them feel like they got a little more than what they were going to get before. So, is that the best you can do is so easy. Is it the best I can do? Absolutely – I’m going to do a fantastic job. This thing is going to come out perfect. Well no, like price-wise is that the best you can do? And you just pause, just pause and wait – just wait silently – it’s so uncomfortable the first couple of times you do it. Just wait silently. Sometimes it’s five or six seconds or seven seconds which feels like five minutes.
Half of the time they’ll break themselves. Just wait. It sounds strange, but just wait. Just try it. When they say; is that the best you can do, just wait if you’re in person. On the phone they could think they didn’t hear you or something, but in person just wait, wait, and they’ll probably say well, I guess we can go ahead and do it. It’s pretty funny to do, but it really works. Just be quiet and if they ask you again just move the focus back to the quality and off the price and say; if you’re really concerned with the cost only, well there’s certainly a lot of companies that are cheaper. But if you’re concerned with the cost and the quality of the repair then you can start circling back on the quality again.
Sometimes you just need to get something. If they’re still stuck on that you can ask them; what did you have in mind? What kind of price were you thinking you would get or we would come up with? They might only be a few bucks off and then you could start negotiating dollars or give them $5 or $10 or $15. Sometimes it’s all they want, but try to do nothing first and see if that problem solves itself. Sometimes it does.
Now, before we get to the tool review I have to ask for a personal favor from everyone in the PDR College podcast audience. I need you to refer this podcast to someone that you know who does PDR in Wyoming. This is a personal favor for me. We are listened to in every single state except Wyoming. I have no people listening in Wyoming and I whole map to be covered. Wyoming dent guys, we need to bring them into the fold. So if somebody knows a PDR guy in Wyoming, refer to the PDR College podcast and my U.S. dominance will be complete.
Shane Jacks: My? What’s this my crap?
Keith Cosentino: Did you know about Wyoming, Shane? Oh – I take it back – there are two states. Alaska – and I know a PDR guy in Alaska personally.
Shane Jacks: Do you?
Keith Cosentino: I do.
Shane Jacks: Nice – he works one month out of the year, but during that month he works 24 hours a day because the fricking sun don’t go down.
Keith Cosentino: You know what? He went up there because there was hardly any competition and he’s doing really well. It turns out they’ve got to buy cars up there, too.
Shane Jacks: Really?
Keith Cosentino: Yes, they need cars up in Alaska. Personal shout out: Jason Wren in Alaska, you are now hearing this. You are now on the PDR College podcast. He’s immortalized in a recording.
Shane Jacks: All right – ready for a tool review?
Keith Cosentino: What are we talking about, Shane? You are the tool expert. You are the man who has beaten the world with your hands and your tools. Tell us what you recommend.
Shane Jacks: We are going to talk about dent dollies today.
Keith Cosentino: Are those those – oh; I thought those were the girls in the bikinis at the MTE.
Shane Jacks: Yes, that’s also a dent dolly. They’re also easily acquirable for the right amount of money.
Keith Cosentino: I know a lot of people who like that program. For the record, I think that is so retarded.
Shane Jacks: It’s stupid.
Keith Cosentino: I mean I like pretty girls as much as anybody, but come on.
Shane Jacks: I’m not going to say it. Anyway, dent dollies at dentcrafttools.com and this is part number DNTDL. These are the red and yellow and blue dolly blocks that you use. These things are absolutely awesome. Whenever you’ve got like a flat spot on the edge, Keith when you’re working a dent up and it seems like you’ve worked it for 10 minutes and moved it zero because you’ve got it to a level where it’s –
Keith Cosentino: Well, you’re speaking specifically about a dent that’s all the way at the edge of a panel and you’ve got a corner, like a bottom corner where you took the bumper off a quarter panel and it’s the bottom edge of the quarter that’s normally not exposed or it’s a dent on the roof rail where at the edge of the rail where it meets the roof is kind of bulged-out and stuff like is what we’re talking about.
Shane Jacks: Yeah – lots of times on roofs with hail damage you’ll get it – the dent right near the edge of where the drip rail goes. And you just work that thing and it seems like you’re not doing anything for a while. There’s a flat spot there; it’s because there’s pressure held in by that corner. You take these dent dollies – also; oh man when you’ve got people that climb on the tops of cars and especially near the edges of the roof you’ve got the big bowls there? These things will move that huge, move that big time. You just use the dolly on the edge where the edge rolls down of the panel. You put it on that edge and you slightly tap it with a hammer.
You can move a lot of metal and get those flat spots out really quickly and release that pressure. These things are awesome.
Keith Cosentino: Yeah – working the edge like that is a really important lesson in doing successful, comprehensive PDR and knowing how to fix every part of a car. One of the best lessons I had was where I kind of learned it by accident. But if you remember the Chevy Malibu’s; not the current one, but the previous generation – the way their bumper skin is attached is that they had like bolts into clips in the bumper if I remember it right – on either side coming up into the quarter. So the quarter has a real flat shelf facing the floor with two holes in it on each side. Well, when those things get hit in the bumper from the back it tweaks those two holes, right?
Well, at the body shop they pull the bumpers off – this has happened a few different times on the same model – so that’s how I was able to learn this lesson. But they pull the skin off and they’ve called on me and said; we don’t want to paint both quarters. There’s just a slight little dent on each side. Whenever I see the same dent on each side I always look further and think; okay it’s not statistically probable that something hit it at the same exact place on both sides. This is probably coming from something else.
I started looking closer into the holes and the dents were aligned right with the holes to the bumper. I determined that when you tweak that hole it’s pulling the metal in a certain fashion that’s sucking that dent in. It’s not really dented. The bottom edge is dented and it’s pulling the skin and manifesting itself as a dent. So even the body guys on a couple of different occasions didn’t know to look at the source; they were just looking at the dent and they were going to fill it but they were having me do it instead. So once I figured out what was going on, just by manipulating that edge back to the proper position that dent goes away completely.
So that’s all about manipulating that flat edge around the corner. If you didn’t know that you would just work that dent and you could probably fix it just by pushing on it. It was just a light little dent, but when you can fix the source of it the dent comes out faster and cleaner than if you actually go and push on it. That whole lesson is all about manipulating that edge 90 degrees away from the flat edge that you really are ultimately trying to fix. So keep a good eye on that flat edge is near a corner because a lot of your problem is hanging out on that edge, especially on collision damage when people rub up into the quarter panels.
There’s a lot of stuff hanging out underneath the bumper and if you want to do a perfect repair you’ve got to pull that bumper skin and be able to tap that flat edge back up where it is to really release that bottom corner or else it’s never going to come out clean in my opinion.
Shane Jacks: You are correct, sir.
Keith Cosentino: Then, instead of my opinion I’ll just say; in real life, because it’s fact.
Shane Jacks: In my opinion air is needed for survival.
Keith Cosentino: So to recap, we’ve talked about it 1,000 times already but get the book from Nicholas Boothman: How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less. Do not be offended when people want to negotiate with you in your sale. When you are going to a wholesale account that you’re trying to acquire do some research, find out who your guy is, and do some recon on their lot before you go. Know what you’re looking at. Before you talk to him have one or two cars in mind with stock numbers written down or plugged into your phone that you could tell him need work right now and let me show you what I can do.
And be consistent. Keep coming back. And I guess you could take the; don’t take the negotiating part personally and apply it to these guys who will leave you in the back. Like Shane says, don’t take it personally. That I do take personally but Shane says don’t, so let’s not.
Shane Jacks: You see? People can disagree and still get along.
Keith Cosentino: We’re agreeing. We agree. All right guys – until next time.
Shane Jacks: Get better.[End of Audio]
Duration: 73 minutes