PDR COLLEGE Podcast #97

LIVE Periscope Q&A w Keith, Shane, & Sal Contreras

This was a very cool show! We had all three of us live together and answered questions from the people watching on Periscope. We will DEFINITELY do another show in this format!

We also gave away over $300 worth of Blackplague PDR Smooth Series Tabs for the best questions we chose to answer!

Download the Periscope app on either apple or android devices and follow PDRcollegeKeith and PDRcollegeShane to be a part of the fun next time!

We’d like to thank ReconPro for sponsoring the show today.


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Keith Cosentino: I’m Keith Cosentino; he’s Shane Jacks. This is the PDR College podcast, your number one source for expert-level information on the paintless dent removal industry. We’re here every week to help you get better in your career. From making more money to spending more money we are experts. So join us on this ride and we will help you get to the place that you wanna be.

Today is a special, special show because what we did when we recorded this show was we did a live Periscope stream. If you don’t know what that is, Periscope is an app where you can both stream and watch anyone anywhere who has the app on their device, phone or tablet. Shane and I set our phones up in our studio, aka Shane’s hotel room when he’s here visiting in California, and we had our good friend Sal Contreras, from the San Francisco Bay area drive on up here to Sacramento and we all set up and had a kind of a round table discussion. Everybody on Periscope was asking questions and we answered them live on the show. We recorded all the audio and that’s today’s show. It’s really cool. It’s questions from you guys that were on Periscope and if you missed us, total bummer.

Download the app and head over there and follow PDR College Keith and PDR College Shane, and every time we do a live Periscope, you’ll get a little chirp on your phone and you can hang out with us and ask questions right there on the app. It’s a really fun way to interact. Enjoy the show. We’re a little bit crazy in the beginning when we get it set up. But we finally find a rhythm a few minutes in and answer some really cool questions. We’re really grateful for all of you that participated when it was live. We’re grateful for you listening again here on the show. Here it is, the live version of the PDR College podcast.

Shane Jacks: All right.

Sal Contreras: Look at all those – what’s that?

Shane Jacks: The hearts? Currently, I’m in the lead. Well, probably not now. The hearts – we’re gonna go over this with Sal real quick because he has no idea what Periscope is, but he should be on it, actually. The hearts there, Sal, whenever somebody likes what you’re saying or whatever, they just tap on the screen –


Keith Cosentino: – might be has been quiet over here.
Shane Jacks: You tap on the screen, it gives him a heart.

Keith Cosentino: We’re both live. Shane’s live on his phone and I’m live on mine. Can you guys tell me if anything crazy’s going on with your audio. You guys hear and see us okay?

Shane Jacks: Can you stand that up so you can see your questions? Or is he gonna need to?

Sal Contreras: I can see that.

Keith Cosentino: I just lost connection.

Shane Jacks: This is on my account, actually.

Sal Contreras: Everything’s good on Shane’s.

Shane Jacks: Everything’s good on mine. What about Keith’s?

Keith Cosentino: I’m ready. Audio sounds good over here.

Sal Contreras: That’s Derek Yost. I can see that.

Shane Jacks: You’re gonna see a lot of people you know. Guys, share this while you’re at it. Share – swipe to the left.

Keith Cosentino: My nice-looking glasses got smashed –


Sal Contreras: Go [inaudible] [00:03:06] dents. [Inaudible]. Panel perfect PDR [inaudible].

Shane Jacks: What’s going on, TC?

Keith Cosentino: – use to see the questions because that camera’s far away.


Shane Jacks: Lookee there.

Sal Contreras: Who asked Sal – who us Sal?

Shane Jacks: Who us Sal. Are you asking who is Sal? If you don’t know who Sal is, you’ve been under a rock.
Keith Cosentino: Hey, we’re gonna have a lot of fun. We’ll be on the scope for a while –


Shane Jacks: Bubba said, “Hey, Sal.” Bubba is actually a guy that I trained not too long ago, about a year and a half ago, I guess. Where are we? We are in my hotel room in Sacramento – no, Lincoln, California, close to Sacramento. I call every – kinda like Greenville, where I’m from. If you’re anywhere close to Greenville, you’re from Greenville. So Keith is from Sacramento to me. Of course, Sal drove up from the Bay area of San Francisco.

Keith Cosentino: Here we go.

Sal Contreras: This looks a lot like Midwest, this area, if you don’t know the– It looks a lot like it.

Keith Cosentino: How’s your text look so big and mine’s small? Is there a setting?

Shane Jacks: I don’t know. I’m not sure. I don’t know, but Keith, I’ve already had one guy jump from your account to mine. When? Genetics. The reason the text is bigger, he said, it’s genetics. Yes, Sal does like us, apparently. I’m not sure why. Big and small talk two times – three guys [inaudible] [00:04:42].

Sal Contreras: It looks like we’re on a bed on this one right here.

Shane Jacks: We’re not. And won’t be at any point.

Keith Cosentino: I got one back. I got Eric from yours to mine. We’re even Steven.

Shane Jacks: Just stay where you’re at. I don’t care. I’m gonna get more hearts, anyway.

Keith Cosentino: Sal, I’m gonna give you this because I can read from my phone. So you can see my questions that pop up and Shane’s. If there’s a question that you see that you wanna answer –

Shane Jacks: I’ll prop you on mine. If I see one that’s aimed at you –

Keith Cosentino: My hearts are blowing up.

Sal Contreras: When you guys first started retail, how did you advertise and what do you do now that’s different?
Keith Cosentino: That’s a great question.

Sal Contreras: When you first started retail. Honestly, I don’t know if you can kinda –

Keith Cosentino: That’s my first contender for the best question. Give me another shout out. Let me know who that was that asked that question because the comments go away so fast.

Shane Jacks: It’s tough for us to formulate thoughts and read –

Keith Cosentino: You’re kicking my butt. You have 100 people and I got 70.

Shane Jacks: It sucks to be you.

Keith Cosentino: Invite your friends to Keith’s side right now. I’m not answering any questions.

Shane Jacks: Sore loser. Sore loser.

Keith Cosentino: These are my questions –


Shane Jacks: I’ve got 103 now, by the way.

Sal Contreras: Can I find him again? Shane’s going down.

Keith Cosentino: That was being made at Murdock [inaudible] [00:06:06].

Sal Contreras: Sacramento PDR. That’s gotta be one of Keith’s buddies.

Keith Cosentino: What is the [inaudible]?

Shane Jacks: That is good.

Keith Cosentino: My question is when did I first realize that I was better than Shane?

Shane Jacks: Team Shane, there you go.

Keith Cosentino: [Inaudible] [00:06:20]. Pushing Limits PDR asks do you guys use an SEO marketing company.

Sal Contreras: No. [Inaudible] Shane Jacks: No. A lot of my SEO was built into my website and then all the video stuff I do. It’s a huge deal. We’ll answer these questions. Throw them up there. Throw some more questions up.

Keith Cosentino: Type your question again because I like it. I’m gonna answer that one. 103 to 75.


Keith Cosentino: – shared me.

Sal Contreras: I’m curious what you’re gonna say.

Keith Cosentino: Type your question again for me. I’m sure you’re doing it right now.

Shane Jacks: How much with Google AdWords do you guys use? That’s Turbo.

Keith Cosentino: How much for one-on-one training, one week, Shane? There you go. Thank you, Ben. Thanks, Jared. Thanks, Brandon.

Shane Jacks: I believe that was Turbo PDR. It was asked about the AdWords. Correct? On my side?

Keith Cosentino: Here comes a question about a tool. You’re a good company for that, Eric. After you get the prototype and it’s working, what would be the next? Before these all stack up, let’s answer one as they come up. Eric, prototype tool.

Shane Jacks: Turbo Mopar, I’ve got your question down. We’ll answer that soon.

Keith Cosentino: Here’s the first question. When you guys first started retail, how did you advertise and what do you do now that’s different? I’ll go ahead and take that one first.

When I first started retail (take my glasses off) – you guys can’t see Shane, now. Let me try to move you just a little bit so you can see Shane, too. Shane, move a little bit to your right if you can in a second. When I first started retail – this mike thing sucks.

Shane Jacks: You can tell this is the first time we’ve done this whole Periscope thing. We’re working through it fairly fast, though.

Keith Cosentino: You all might have changed now in podcast. Sorry about that but we’re trying to accommodate the screen and the mikes for the action podcast.

Sal Contreras: This is a good one, right here.

Keith Cosentino: This is gonna be our podcast as well as this audio. I know it’s good to Periscope, but when it comes back on the podcast, that’s when we might have some issues. But whatever, we’re gonna deal with it. Podcast listeners, thank you for bearing with us. It’s a weird audience, but follow us on Periscope. PDR College Keith and PDR College Shane. This is our first simulcast, so this is actually a live Periscope and you’re hearing it as a recording on a podcast.

The topic today is ask Keith, Shane, and Sal questions. Before I get to these questions, let’s talk about who we are and why we’re on the show. You’ve been listening to the PDR College podcast for a while, you know who Shane and I are, and probably know who Sal is, but just in case you don’t, Sal Contreras, instead of me butchering his history and accolades in PDR, let’s just ask the man. Sal, what are you known for in PDR? Where did you come from? Why are you here? Why are you the man? Why are you the Dent Olympic winner? Current.

Sal Contreras: I would say all I basically did was start tackling some of the hardest dents I could find because that would seem to be the only way to get accounts. I found great success in that and then I went online in 2008, started posting my videos. When that happened, I started to notice I didn’t see a lot of videos posted, and that’s when I kinda was wondering if a lot of guys are doing larger damage. Ever since then, I’ve been getting – a lot of good attention on it, on YouTube, on some of the videos that I promoted. Ever since then, people know my by these big, ugly repairs. That’s all I kinda do, mainly, is big, ugly repairs.

Keith Cosentino: You were kinda just building your specialty there. When you were in a cocoon, nobody really knew what you were doing. You just kinda had your head down and working, working bigger and bigger dents. You didn’t have a big social network of PDR guys when you came online, right?

Sal Contreras: No. I was like a Rip Van Winkle, I swear. I hid inside used car lots for years. Really.

Shane Jacks: Why do you have more hair than me, Sal? And Keith? By the way, I am taking notes on these – I know I’ve not been acknowledging it, but I’m taking notes on the questions that you guys ask, so we will get to them.

Keith Cosentino: I’m not taking notes on your questions [inaudible] [00:10:33] on the side a way to post your other questions because otherwise we’re gonna get caught writing and I won’t be able to engage anybody. Sal’s the man. Sal’s the current Dent Olympic champion 2015. Shane, you won in 2013, if I got the date right. I haven’t won yet. My win’s coming in the future, apparently. I’m not letting them out of this hotel room until they teach me how to win.

Shane Jacks: You’ve got bigger goals ahead of you, son.

Keith Cosentino: Sal’s got his own line of tools: the Dent Dial that’s unlike anything else in PDR. It’s a totally different system in creating leverage in repairing stuff. That was born out of your style of fixing big, giant, smashed, crushed stuff. Most guys would say, “No. No. No.” In fact, when Shane and I and Sal first met online, it wasn’t all rainbows and puppy dogs and ice cream. I was convinced both of them were completely full of crap. Especially both of them. Sal’s fixing these giant dents that I knew they weren’t gonna come out, and Shane was doing them in 45 minutes and I knew that was a lie, too. All I needed to do was find them in person and I would realize I was smarter than they were.

It turns out the opposite. Sal is fixing stuff that you think isn’t being fixed, and Shane is doing it in 25 minutes. We’re getting them all here in one place and I’m just good at talking, so I get to hang out with them at the same time. They’re on another level.

Shane Jacks: Really, all I do is I’ve got this video technology that flips the side, so if you see them –

Keith Cosentino: I’m not even in your video. You bastard.

Shane Jacks: No. If you move that way – you keep moving.

Keith Cosentino: I’ve got to get in my own video.

Shane Jacks: You’re in your own video.

Keith Cosentino: Only if I’m here.


Shane Jacks: Move right here. Right here and you’re in everybody’s.

Keith Cosentino: Basically, I’m sitting on the side of the [inaudible] [00:12:13] right now.

Sal Contreras: You should turn yours a little bit.

Shane Jacks: Okay. We can turn it a little bit. There we go. All right.

Sal Contreras: We gotta lean in a little bit.

Shane Jacks: Better.

Keith Cosentino: All right. That’s better.

Shane Jacks: Now it looks like Keith is wearing a road scarf.

Keith Cosentino: It sure does.

Shane Jacks: What is the most versatile version for Sal?

Keith Cosentino: Let me get to answering Mick’s question.

Shane Jacks: For the Dent Dial. Hold on.

Sal Contreras: I don’t wanna get into too many details–

Keith Cosentino: Shane’s stream. I’m talking to you but I’m looking over here because my phone’s over here.

Sal Contreras: Wow. They come at you. They do.

Keith Cosentino: Nick, you asked how did we market our companies when we started in retail. How is it different now? That was the question?

Sal Contreras: Yeah.

Keith Cosentino: When I started in retail, Google maps wasn’t even really well known. We weren’t working at the point where we are now, where you need to find something, boom, the first thing you do is go to your phone and type it in. That didn’t exist. Gosh, I hate these glasses. Back then, it was more searching, but the map feature wasn’t as prevalent. Not everybody had maps in their pocket like we do now.

What I did to start my retail wasn’t really anything online. I had my website which was the basis. So I guess I was online a little bit, but optimization was garbage. What I did was concentrate on personal relationships at body shops and dealerships, especially. Body shops were the best. Personal relationships with the estimators at body shops and the managers at body shops because they tell the estimators what to do. Owners if you can find them and make friends with them. That was really important to my retail business.

And you only need maybe five, in my opinion, five good body shops to go into business and be busy most of the time with good work. Good ones, though. Five good ones are almost like unicorns. It’s really hard, especially now. They’re a little more jaded.

Sal Contreras: But how do you get them?

Keith Cosentino: How do you get them is the hard part. I was really good all the time, so back then they knew me as the guy who was good. I jumped from there to pushing –

Sal Contreras: You were in the market at the right time for your competitors’ skill level and when you entered the market.

Keith Cosentino: Absolutely. And that wasn’t by accident. I was trying – the reason we are in a room together today is because we all were pursuing excellence in PDR work. In our evenings, when you guys who are complaining were at home playing Play Station, we were banging on keyboards talking about dent removal until all hours of the night, working on prototype tools, and coming up with new strategies, and thinking how are we gonna get in the competition. We were nerding out on dents. We were already the best guys in our market.

Sal Contreras: You have to be a nerd, no doubt about it.

Keith Cosentino: Yeah, before we came to retail. Sal, let me touch on how to bend a heavy 35 Dent Dial. That’s an easy one.

Sal Contreras: Frame rack. A sewer drain. The back of your trailer hitch. Anywhere, really. Just lean into it and just pull it as hard as you can. You’re not gonna break it.
Keith Cosentino: That’s how I started, personal relationships. As the web came into prevalence, I started using Google Maps. I had a listing in all of the towns that I service, which is a total no-no, now. They’ll boot you right off Maps if you do it now. But back then –

Shane Jacks: I like the dumpster.

Keith Cosentino: It was more Wild West. When you did a search from this part of town, that part of town, my company would pop up. We were getting a lot of traffic that way. Then Yelp came into play, and once I saw that early, I knew it was gonna be a big deal. I really started pushing people to Yelp and started optimizing my Yelp listing. Make sure everything was perfect in there. Make sure the hours were right. And making sure I asked my customers and my friends who I’ve worked on their cars, “Please go on here and leave me a review, a legit review.” I wasn’t asking for fake ones because you can see fake ones a mile away. But if I actually did a repair for someone, I’d let them know how much it meant to me.

Before Yelp, I asked them to do that in Google. But Google plays around with those reviews. At least, it did back then. I had so many different – they kick a lot of them, Pushing Limits PDR. They kick a lot of them. You gotta be consistent. Once you hit a snowball point, they start sticking.

Sal Contreras: I pretty much did the opposite. That’s amazing.

Keith Cosentino: Yeah, cool. That’s how I did it. Sal, what’d you do?

Sal Contreras: I did the complete opposite.

Keith Cosentino: Start your retail business, you got away from dealers and body shops.

Sal Contreras: Yeah. I honestly became obnoxiously expensive to the best body shops I could find that I was working with. I was working with the top dealers at the time, and my goal was to be the most expensive so I didn’t kinda need them anymore. That was the goal. But at the same time, I was using their cars and their experience to get ready for where I was going.

Then I got to body shops. They started giving me more work than the dealer. When the body shops gave me more work than the dealer, the same thing. I tried to become – not necessarily – I’m not gonna say the most expensive. I guess that’s a poor choice of words. I wanted to be – I wanted to give them the best possible repair so they had a frame of reference when – because the one thing I kept hearing – I can only go by my experience.

The one thing I kept hearing when I was working body shops was the guy would go out there and look at it, not say anything, and pay me. Right? The next time I’d come in, I’d get maybe hit on the price or whatever. I’d still get the job done, but something was happening, that they were noticing it was gone. A body shop owner’s not gonna be fooled.

I didn’t know that they were using other guys. I didn’t really care because I knew when I left that repair, there was nothing they were gonna find. That was my goal. Get them so addicted to that – “Okay, we want that. What’s that? Why did that guy do that?” They would constantly be questioning other guys. What happened is I saw that happening, and I wanted to become the most expensive so they’d kick me out. That was my goal. And it happened. It worked.

Keith Cosentino: At that point, were you doing any retail? Much retail?

Sal Contreras: No. Not too much because, like you said, I musta had 25 body shops calling me, between Mountain View and San Francisco. I was getting so busy, but they were still quoting a price or wanted me to quote a price that they could make money on. They were kinda keeping me down. At the same time, I’m looking at them making money. I wanted to make more money. I wanted to get to the source, the retail source. That’s what I wanted so bad.

At some point, I’m gonna give them a price that is what I would give my retail customer, which is that person that you’re working with, what is that price. I don’t wanna say – I wanna quote close to body shop prices because I don’t know, I don’t like that. I don’t wanna say, “Okay, if they’re gonna paint it for two grand, I’m gonna be 1700.”

Keith Cosentino: Just as a saying, you don’t like that, as a mindset.

Sal Contreras: I don’t because the problem with that is you could run into doing it in four hours and make $1800.00, and now they’re wondering –

Keith Cosentino: That would be terrible.

Sal Contreras: They would wonder, at least around where I’m at, there’s no hail numbers, they’re like– all right. My goal was to come up with a dollar prior in my head, and just keep inching that up and up and up to where they would get rid of me. And when they finally got rid of me is when I went retail. After that, it was just AdWords and –

Keith Cosentino: When you said you went retail, what did you do? What was your first step? Did you already have a website up?

Sal Contreras: Yes. Yes. I started a website and then I got on AdWords. AdWords was the main thing. That’s the root of the Internet. That’s where Yelp gets their information. That’s where everybody gets their information is on AdWords. So if you’re on AdWords and you give proper information, everybody’s gonna draw from that. That’s what happened.

I started spending money, about 60 bucks a month. It started getting me out there quick. You get a lot of calls. It’ll make your phone ring, for sure.

Keith Cosentino: Shane, how’d you start marketing for retail?

Shane Jacks: Much the same as you. It wasn’t really marketing, per se, as much as it was going with the body shops and the service drives. They were doing my marketing for me, so to speak. Word of mouth was a huge – honestly.

I had a little different scenario than Keith and Sal. I spent 11 years at a manufacturing facility. I was doing this on the side and the clientele – that’s kind of where my retail – when my retail got so big and that my body shop work and the little bit of wholesale work that I was doing on the side got to the point where I couldn’t do both, work full time at a manufacturing facility and do PDR part time, that’s when I had to quit the manufacturing facility. When you’re working there full time and you’ve got a rotating day per week off, Keith and Sal, it was hard for me to actually do dealer work because they want you there one day, all day, a certain day.

Sal Contreras: If they want you there Tuesday, they’re gonna call you Friday.

Shane Jacks: True, but they also want you there Tuesday.

Sal Contreras: Yeah. If they want you Friday, they’ll call you Thursday.

Shane Jacks: I really couldn’t – I really built my retail and body shop up to the point where they could sustain me before I quit the plant. A lot of that was word of mouth. Yes, Turbo. I quit BMW for two reasons: because of all the side work that I had and number 2, because I could not take the place any longer. I was done. Mentally, I was done with the –

Keith Cosentino: – the hearts and super awesome.

Shane Jacks: – manufacturing deal. That was mine, Keith.

Right now, I do AdWords. You mentioned something that is a kind of a unicorn in my area, and that is Yelp. I’ve gotten – I think I’m up to five reviews, now. Yes, and I do train their guys, now, which is kind of a funny turn.

Sal Contreras: You do it when you’re going to get a shot.

Shane Jacks: Sal’s talking about getting a shot. We can talk about that later. He’s waffled on that out and back. Yelp doesn’t really work that great in my area. I think I’ve got five reviews, four or five, all five star. That’s it. I begged people for almost a year and “What’s Yelp?” Google, I’ve gotten eight reviews on it without solicitation. So maybe I really need to start pushing my Google review because it seems like it’s bigger in my area, honestly, because I didn’t even have to solicit it.

I do AdWords. Like Sal said, AdWords does work. The great –

Sal Contreras: It makes your phone ring so quick, the same day.

Shane Jacks: Yes, it will. It will. I agree. We do need a good door stand, but Keith and I way too busy. No more sidewalk videos, if you get a shop, Sal.

Sal Contreras: I’ll tell you what. That, to me, being a sidewalk technician, honestly, that’ll get your show on the road. If you can work on the sidewalk, like I do, you can work anywhere. That’s why –

Keith Cosentino: Your approval’s bigger there.

Sal Contreras: I’m having a great time working on the sidewalk.

Keith Cosentino: Netguy’s New York said Google is bigger in New York than Yelp.

Shane Jacks: In New York.

Sal Contreras: Oh, really.

Keith Cosentino: Maybe when you guys get more people Yelp will be better over there.

Shane Jacks: Derek’s working on a door stand. Move on to the next question.

Keith Cosentino: Mick, you win the first set of free tabs. Awesome question. Email me at pdrcollegeonline@gmail.com and give me your information. We got four more sets of Blackplague’s new series tabs we are giving away. If your question is good and we answer it, you win free tabs.

Shane Jacks: I got a pretty good question here, Keith. It’s from – all I got out of this was Chicago. It was really hard for me to write at the same time. Chicago something, I don’t know if it was Chicago PDR or what, the question was along the lines of one thing that we wish we did different in our business right now or maybe what he meant was did different that would affect our business right now.

Keith Cosentino: That’s a good question.

Shane Jacks: Yes, it is.

Keith Cosentino: You wanna go first?

Shane Jacks: Not really because I don’t have an answer. We can formulate one.

Sal Contreras: Say it again.

Shane Jacks: One thing that we wish we could do different in our businesses.

Sal Contreras: I know what I’d do. I should have gotten a protégé a lot sooner in my career and prepared for what’s happening to me right now. Definitely. At some point, if you are truly gonna become a successful company in your area, you’ve got to train someone else to take over because you have to shed the accounts that you don’t really – can’t service properly any more. You have to serve them with somebody. Otherwise your competition takes over, which isn’t my case, but I’m a guy that likes less responsibility. I knew it was gonna happen. But I probably should’ve retrained just one more guy.

Keith Cosentino: I know that that’s the right thing to do because I wouldn’t be where I am if I didn’t have my number one guy, Jared. Jared Cantor’s been with me from his first day in PDR. He never knew what it was until I met him. I’ve been able to train him, and he basically runs the company, now, while I’m out doing stuff like this and working on tools and everything else. You can’t grow without that right guy.

But I did that, so what would I do different? I would put a shop together earlier on.

Sal Contreras: Oh, nice. That answers my question.

Keith Cosentino: I would have. Two reasons.

Sal Contreras: [Inaudible] [00:26:16].

Keith Cosentino: One, I think there’s something that puts every customer at ease with a physical location, some place they know they can drive back to and find you. I’ve had no problem marketing mobile over these years. People love it. But I think they would still enjoy it if it was mobile and fixed, and give, maybe, add a little more credibility to them thinking who we are and what we do, knowing they can find us again. We’re not gonna disappear into the shadows.

Sal Contreras: You could do, probably, more intense jobs – he has a shop – because of the shop.

Keith Cosentino: They can stay overnight. You can take them apart. I wouldn’t have to work as many late nights because I don’t leave a job half done. I know you like to come back to jobs. I won’t.

I would do that for that reason, but the second reason is strictly financial. I would buy a building and let my PDR company pay for that money. I’m 17 years in the business now, 13 by myself. If I would have bought a building 13 years ago, I’d be pretty close to having that building paid off.

Sal Contreras: Oh, stop it. If it’s still doing, who cares.

Keith Cosentino: That’s what I would have done differently, a shop earlier.

Sal Contreras: A lot cheaper up here.

Keith Cosentino: Am I looking for a shop now? Kinda, but not officially.
Sal Contreras: And you have guys to man it now.

Keith Cosentino: I do. I had an opportunity to get a great shop. In fact, I showed Shane the location on the way over here.

What percentage do you guys give your techs to keep them from leaving and being loyal? Good question. We’re gonna answer a bunch on the podcast.

Shane Jacks: How do they sell quality over cheap prices?

Sal Contreras: That’s a good one. I can answer that one.

Keith Cosentino: I didn’t take that first shop opportunity because I was by myself. It was $5,000.00, $6,000.00 a month in overhead, and I couldn’t see that tradeoff of spending six grand and sitting at a shop trying to build it up when I was already making a lot of money mobile. That’s what I would do different.

Shane Jacks: All right. You guys actually – Keith, your answer kinda stirred something in me. Before I go to that, yes, a shop is effective for what you were talking about, easing people. There’s something that eases people’s minds about having a place to go back to. And also, it can be, as you’ve noted, Keith, an albatross at times. You’d better be fricking ready or have somebody to run it. I’m not as trusting as I should be.

Keith Cosentino: Sorry, Greg.

Shane Jacks: – and hang on, way too long, but I’m getting better. As you can see. I am in California and not in Greenville, South Carolina, right now.

Another thing, what that spurred in my mind, the question what would I do differently? Keith, think bigger. Honestly. That’s where Keith was 13 years ago with his shop is he was thinking, “I’m making X amount of money right now, and if I have to invest this, I’ve gotta build it back up again.” He was thinking small. I did the same thing before I opened my shop. Really, the only reason I opened my shop – I’ve shared this with Keith. I don’t know if I’ve shared it with all of you guys or not.

I had extra money. I killed it on a hail year one year. I was like, “I wanna open a shop because I’m just gonna throw this money at it and see what happens.” And now there is no possible way I could get away from having a shop. I would quit. I just can’t do it anymore. Sal, I see you on your videos on the sidewalk, in the sun.

The 24-hour dent repair service center – that would have to be a really, really, really big area for that.

Sal Contreras: That’s what I’m thinking of.

Keith Cosentino: It’s 3 a.m. I need this dent –

Shane Jacks: This is now.

Keith Cosentino: You guys couldn’t see on Shane’s feed. Somebody asked, “Do you think there’s a need for a 24-hour dent repair service?”

Sal Contreras: I think there is. Where I live.

Keith Cosentino: 24 hours?

Sal Contreras: The thing is that some of the repairs I do take so long that you really can’t do both at the same time. The big job will take over all the little jobs. So then you have to hire a guy to do the little jobs and you’re stuck doing the big jobs. I think it could be one of those where you drop it off at ten o’clock and we’ll work on it for three hours, you have a late guy working. It could be done. Especially if it’s in a high overhead spot. You almost have to stay open longer.

Keith Cosentino: Have you looked at rents in your area?

Sal Contreras: Oh, yeah.

Keith Cosentino: How much would a two-bay shop cost to rent?

Sal Contreras: Three to five grand.

Keith Cosentino: It’s not too far off of what it is up here. The place I looked at was 4500. 4500, two bays, and a waiting area.

Sal Contreras: That’s the thing. That’s the big question. Are you looking at something that has high profile, great parking, everybody sees it every day. Everybody’s coming from all over. Or out of the way –

Keith Cosentino: No. If I’m gonna do it, I wanna be right in your face.
Sal Contreras: Exactly. That’s what I’m gonna do. That’s exactly –


Shane Jacks: It depends on where you’re at in Greenville. Where I’m at, I’m getting really good rent because they wanted me there, but if you go into the downtown, you get into the – it’s high – that’s what it’s gonna be there, also. I’m in a really good area but it’s not the high, high rent. If I were paying the rent that I should be paying, Keith, it would be 4 grand a month, probably. That’s four bays.

Keith Cosentino: That’s true. You got a pretty nice location. Shane’s on a big, busy stretch right across from a dealer, next door to another dealer. He’s in good shape.

What do you guys think of a shop for appointment only for certain days and then mobile other days? I don’t think you –

Sal Contreras: Yeah. It’d have to be out of the way and very inexpensive to keep it running.

Keith Cosentino: To me, that’s just like a pop-up tent behind your mobile unit, is all that is. If someone can’t drive there and talk to somebody, it’s like you’re out of business when they get there. If this guy does it part time, I personally wouldn’t do it. I would have it, I would use it, but I wouldn’t send people there. If I was going to, I would station a receptionist there, if that’s what I was gonna do.

Sal Contreras: You gotta go all in.

Keith Cosentino: Yeah, right.

Sal Contreras: But at the same time, it’s like anything. You’d have to have the skills because the one thing I learned in retail, at least for the stuff I do, you really almost have to say, honestly, yes to 90 percent of what you’re seeing. That’s what I try to do. When I see something in a picture and it looks pretty crazy, I still wanna see it. In the picture I can tell if there’s something about it that’s too crazy. Sure enough, when I see it in person it turns out to be fine. Then I give it the price I want, and I’m the only guy that seemed to – wants to do this stuff, so it works.

Keith Cosentino: My apologies. I didn’t see who that was, but he was thinking for hail season. For hail season, blow it up. Get as much space as you can. If you have hail in your town, yes. All day. We don’t have hail here in Cali, so we would just have this extra rent payment and then we’d have to bring cars there to work on them. That would be lame for us. But if you station somebody there who was a salesman or woman, a salesperson, and could take an appointment and could capture some keys, do it. Might be cool. Totally. For hail, yes. And if I was gonna do it for retail, I would put somebody there. Then I would do it.

Sal Contreras: Somebody just asked would you work out of a gas station giving a cut to the owner of the gas station? Let’s say he gave you a part of the parking lot. I think that’s nothing wrong with that because when he sees that he’s making money on it, he’s gonna want you around. It gets you started. It could get you started.

Keith Cosentino: Yeah. That’s a decent question. I don’t think we’ve ever had that question before.

Shane Jacks: No.

Keith Cosentino: I don’t know about in South Carolina but out here there’s a lot of glass repair guys that set up at gas stations. Do they do that out there?

Shane Jacks: No. They don’t.

Keith Cosentino: Glass chip repair.

Shane Jacks: Interesting. Turbo Mopar, you’ve asked a couple of times, now, about AdWords.

Keith Cosentino: Is this a question you’re choosing to win?

Shane Jacks: The Chicago one definitely was.

Keith Cosentino: What question was that?

Shane Jacks: Chicago was about the one thing to do different. Chicago, I need your name again, if you don’t mind. If you can just type ‘It’s me’ or something. I just need to –

Keith Cosentino: And Chicago, congratulations, you win. But we need your information, so email pdrcollegeonline@gmail.com. And on my side, Kent asked – “It’s me.” Oh. How are you on both sides? Don’t even answer. Kent asked me, “How do you win? What’s the contest?” If we choose one of your questions and answer it on the podcast, you switch feeds. That’s the only reason you’re still winning because you switched back to mine.

Shane Jacks: Who is it?

Keith Cosentino: Chicago. I forgot who it is.

Shane Jacks: Okay. Just send us an email. We’ll get you your stuff out.

Keith Cosentino: And Kent. You asked a question – Chicago it is. I think that it’s Dave. I think. Ask a question, we choose to answer it on the podcast/Periscope, then you win.

Sal Contreras: Somebody asked this –

Shane Jacks: Traitor. Exactly.

Sal Contreras: Somebody asked how do you sell quality over cheap prices?

Keith Cosentino: All three of us do it so that’s a pretty good question. You wanna pick that one to win? First, who asked that question? Was it on Shane’s feed or mine?

Shane Jacks: Yes. It was over here on my feed. Who asked the question about selling quality over –?

Sal Contreras: Car Medic? Yeah.

Shane Jacks: Car Medic, M.D.

Sal Contreras: From what I experience, you really can’t sell something unless you –


Keith Cosentino: – got a question, okay? On my side?

Sal Contreras: – unless you produce compelling reasons to use you over the cheap prices. You have to – I just go back to what I think is the easiest thing to do. At least that’s what I did. I try and make the repair look so amazing that they really don’t care about the other guy’s prices, only on certain cars. But as we know, all dealerships have that heat car that has to be just right. Customers saw the dent. It’s on the red car. It’s on the driver’s door. They’re not gonna call the cheapest guy. They’re gonna call the guy who’s gonna save the deal and not ruin the dent.

Keith Cosentino: That’s for after it’s done. Right? But how do you – he’s asking how do you market, how do you sell for quality over cost? If someone’s coming to you with a dent and they say, “I just talked to Johnny Dents, and he said it’s gonna be 85 bucks.”

Sal Contreras: You’d have to ask details. Did Johnny Dents see the vehicle yet? “Oh, no, he didn’t. He quoted off a picture.” You can do so much with that question.

Keith Cosentino: So let’s go deeper on that because that’s a specialty that all three of us are good at. We’re all our most expensive in our markets.

Shane Jacks: I actually sent a video to a guy the other day. It was a funny situation. It was –

Keith Cosentino: A customer?

Shane Jacks: A customer. Yes. The reason was the customer said – I had told the gentleman, just over pictures, I said, “If” – and it’s hard to that just over pictures through text – I said, “If it’s what I’m seeing there, you’re looking at around $380.00.” He said, “Okay. That sounds good. I got a quote for 280 or 300, something like that. But they were gonna touch up the paint, also.” It had one tiny, little eighth-inch chip in it, in the quarter panel. I said, “Okay. That’s fine. If you wanna go with the cheaper, that’s cool. Just be careful.” And I sent him the video of that chewed up dent that I repaired.

Keith Cosentino: Which one?

Shane Jacks: On the quarter of that Civic. It was a horrible – I know you saw it, Sal.


Shane Jacks: Because you commented.

Keith Cosentino: Blue?

Shane Jacks: Black. You commented on it. I said to him, “Just be careful because this may be what you get.” He immediately sends me a text back. “Okay. So when can you do it?” He was being really sketchy. I shouldn’t have sent him that video, honestly. It was not the best thing to do, honestly. But he was being so sketchy out in back, I was like, “All right. Just watch out. Trust me. You don’t want a bad repair.” But that video sold him, amazingly. It was not the right thing to do. I will be the first to tell you I shouldn’t have done that.

Keith Cosentino: Woody said – I think it’s Woody said Sal’s halo care is gorgeous.

Shane Jacks: I didn’t get that last question, but we’ve got a ton of them here, guys. We’re not gonna be able to get to all of them.

Keith Cosentino: I didn’t get to answer that.

Shane Jacks: Car Medic, Maryland. We’re gonna send you, for that question that Keith is about to finish up by answering –

Keith Cosentino: If you email your info –

Shane Jacks: – if you email your info, we are going to – at pdrcollege@gmail.com, we will send you a free set of tabs. Or Keith will, I’m sorry. Not we. Keith.

Keith Cosentino: You’re welcome.

Sal Contreras: Just to clarify what that question was, I thought he was saying quality over prices at the wholesale or retail. If it’s retail, I always ask them, “Did you get the quote from a wholesale or a retail technician?”

Keith Cosentino: That’s a good question. I never asked that before.

Sal Contreras: You find that you can delve more into that situation if they say, “I’m not sure if he does or not.” I tell them who I am. I said, “I’m a 100 percent retail technician. Which means when I used to work at the dealer –” and drop names. It’s really important that you drop names if you know the dealers’ names in your area. “I used to work for European Mercedes” or whatever. I basically said, “When I worked for the dealer, I was still studying. I was making the dent look good enough ‘til they could sell the car. But this is retail. When I take the dent out, you shouldn’t be able to find it. I don’t know who you’re talking to, but when I take a dent out, it’ll be perfect. It’s really up to you as to what you’re looking for.”

I put it back on them. It makes them wanna say, “I’m looking for really good repair.” That’s what it comes down to for me.
Keith Cosentino: And sometimes they’re not looking for perfect.

Sal Contreras: That’s what I want to know. As soon as they kind of venture into that side, I say, “Then I’m the wrong person.” And I try and take it away from them, even though they haven’t shown it to me yet. I wanna take me away from them. That’s how I get them to drive it out to me. The worst thing that you could do, at least I feel in my market, is quote over pictures online. There’s always a guy out there who’s willing to see it, and that’s me. They’re gonna at least try and show it to me if I make it compelling enough to show it to me.

Keith Cosentino: That’s great. I’ve done something similar where I ask who gave you the quote? Have you seen their work? Did you get a referral? And everything like that. But how do I sell it? You can’t push somebody to want retail over price. Right? You have to find out who they are as a customer. They might not be – you can’t sell that to somebody who just wants to sell their ’89 car. My way to sell quality over price is to ask the right questions and find out what are they after. What’s the most important thing to you? Are you mostly concerned – and I gotta give them options. Are you mostly concerned with the price of this repair? Are you mostly concerned with it being perfect? What’s the goal of –?


Sal Contreras: But they will evade you a little bit.

Keith Cosentino: I find they answer pretty well.

Sal Contreras: But you can tell by their car. If they have a red car they don’t make too many of and they’re practically like, “Well, I’ll just go to the shop for it,” and they have a red car, dent in the middle of the door, I know they’re bluffing. Sorry to interrupt you like that.

Keith Cosentino: No. Both of us have a lot of competitors. That’s the way I sell quality over price, is to make sure I’m with a customer who wants quality over price. And if they don’t know what they want, I make sure I tell them what they should want. I tell them what they’re gonna get if they don’t go this route.

I say, “Listen. There’s a lot of people that are cheaper than me. A lot of them. I can promise you, you can find somebody cheaper than me. Then if you keep calling, you can find somebody cheaper than him. Somebody will always beat that price by a few dollars. So if you’re looking for the cheapest game in town, I am definitely not the right guy for you. But if you want it perfect, and you’re concerned with the quality, then there’s nobody better than me. I’m the best and hands down, there’s not even any other options.”

That’s how I sell quality over price. I try to put as much space – just like Sal – as much space between me and my competitor as I can, so that it’s an easy choice. I either want junk for nothing; I want the Dollar Store. Or I want white glove service. Not we’ll beat their price by five – we’ll beat anybody by five percent or something like that. That’s just gonna muddy the waters. You just make sure there’s a clear distinction between you and crap jobs. Then you’re gonna get those –


Sal Contreras: It depends on the location of the damage, too. If you’re talking to a customer who says, “I have a Mazda 3, driver’s door, dent about five or six inches down from the window,” which is either in the brace or out of the brace. I tell the customer, “I gotta know where it is to give you a price.” If someone gave them a price based on that, then all I have to say is, “I need to see the car because if you’re below the brace it’s cheaper than inside the brace.” I try and get them to show me the car instead of think about the price.

I always tell them, “If you find somebody who’s willing to just run out there, you’re finding a guy who’s not busy. And in our business, he should always be busy. So when you find that person, you want them to be able to work inside the brace if it’s inside the brace.” It makes them, I guess, more curious to try and get them to show it to me. That’s the way I look at it.

Shane Jacks: We had a comment come through just a few minutes ago, or a few seconds ago. I didn’t see who it was. I apologize for that. It said, “The customer comes in thinking they know what they want but we’re the experts. We actually know what they want.” And there’s a lot of truth to that. I know you guys see it constantly, where they come in and they think they just want it popped out better-ish, and then by the time you’ve talked them into it, you know, resale value, all this, and they’re cool with it, and they want you to do your full blown, 100 percent thing. We do know more than what they know and can sell it.

Sal Contreras: I use the word ‘subjective.’ I always tell them, “Can you just make it look better?” I always say, “If I’m done with it, my 80 percent might be your 60 percent. It’s subjective how it’s gonna be to you. And I don’t wanna be in that position. So I only bid it to take it out completely.” And you can see the look in their eye when I say that. As soon as I say that, they know they want it and I got them.

Keith Cosentino: It comes down to selling, Shane. What you’re talking about is that customers don’t know what they want. They only think what they want. I was just having this lesson with my son the other day. We were talking about what you’re shopping for and what you want. I said, “If you’re at home and you wanna get to Grandma’s house, you think you have to go buy a car. You have to drive there. So you’re shopping for a car. But a car isn’t really what you want. You want to get to Grandma’s house. So not until the salesperson figures out what you want – “You wanna get to Grandma’s house. We have a plane or a helicopter that’ll take you there right now. You’re not really looking for a car. You need a plane, a helicopter ride, a chartered helicopter ride.” But you thought you wanted a car when you showed up at the lot.”

So what do they want? It might not be what they’re asking for because they don’t know what’s available. That’s an old Zig Ziglar thing. Most people don’t know what they want because they don’t know what’s available. You’ve gotta do some selling.

All right. So we got Nick’s question. He wins. Car Medic’s question wins. Chicago’s question wins, right?

Shane Jacks: Yep.

Keith Cosentino: That leaves two more.

Sal Contreras: [Inaudible] [00:45:50]

Shane Jacks: I’ve got two over here. You’ve only got one on your side. Do you have a good one you like over there, Keith?

Keith Cosentino: No.


Sal Contreras: I just saw one come across here that –

Keith Cosentino: I’m happy to answer as many questions as I can. They don’t all win. Does certification mean anything to us? No.


Sal Contreras: Somebody just asked one on –

Shane Jacks: Zero. Zip.

Keith Cosentino: It doesn’t mean anything to me.

Sal Contreras: Do that question again, whoever just sent that one.

Keith Cosentino: Not to say I don’t like certification, but being honest, hail company, I was just gonna say. It’s not because I don’t like them, it’s a good thing.

Shane Jacks: Right. That’s right, Matty.

Keith Cosentino: But does it mean anything to me at work. No, it doesn’t, not for me.

Shane Jacks: Oh, Matthew Collins. I know who that is.

Keith Cosentino: There’s other techs that are certified –


Sal Contreras: There’s a time to hire.

Shane Jacks: There’s a time to hire.

Keith Cosentino: I don’t think they’re junk. I think they’re good, but for me, I don’t have any of them. I don’t have Vail and I don’t have PDR Nation, yet. Not because I don’t believe in them.

“What do you do when you pass on a dent? Recommend a local shop that you look for?” Always. That’s a big one, David. If you can’t get a dent or don’t want to, you absolutely refer it to the number one shop that you’re trying to court and that you want the referrals from. You say, “Make sure you talk to Fred. Here’s the number. I’m gonna call Fred for you right now and tell him I’ve seen the car, and you’re a good customer and you’re gonna bring it by.” And I’ll sometimes call in front of them and say, “Hey, Fred. I’m sending Sal over. He’s got an ’89 Masarati, teal, and he’s bringing it to you.” That way they know I’m sending him a referral. Customer knows that they’ve got somebody waiting for them, better chance of coming in. Good question.
Shane Jacks: We’ve got this question that Turbo asked a couple of times about AdWords. I think this is a pretty good question because – Sal, I would like to know what yours are and you’re probably not going to tell us. What are you keywords? You mind telling us?

Sal Contreras: I won’t recall that well, but I do know that there’s a lot of misspelled good ones. There are some really good misspelled ones.

Shane Jacks: Dentless paint repair. That’s one.

Sal Contreras: I think AdWords gives you all of that. You just have to wade through all of them and pick it out.

Keith Cosentino: I don’t think keywords are any special magic sauce. Google’s gonna throw you all the keywords you can possibly need, plus.

Sal Contreras: The most important thing is to go in there and review – do a report as to how the keyword is doing. If you need to bid more on it, bid more on it. Give it an extra $0.10 or $0.20, $0.30. Just keep up with it, that’s the main thing. And shed a lot of unnecessary keywords because that’ll bog you down.

Shane Jacks: Some of the keywords that I use that do really well are the bigger companies that –

Keith Cosentino: [Inaudible] [00:48:41]

Sal Contreras: There’s a good question. “What is the one thing that holds back someone from being exceptional?” I can tell you that one.

Keith Cosentino: All of the above, Dave. Yeah.

Shane Jacks: Sal wants to answer this question that just came across. What is it, Sal? Go ahead and hit us with it again.

Sal Contreras: I saw a question that said “What is the one thing that you think is needed to be an exceptional technician or technical repairer?” A repairer or being a technician, exceptional technician?

Shane Jacks: I think he means technician, probably, yeah.

Sal Contreras: I would have to say if – and this is what was simple for me to do. If you could still see it when you’re done, you’re not done. You have to take the dent out –
Keith Cosentino: And that’s a tall order on the line of these big dents, man.

Sal Contreras: It is. But you’d be surprised. I timed it early, midway in my career, doing that. It literally – I did it one time. It literally took an extra five to 15 minutes to do the extra whatever it is necessary to get out that little wiggle that made you better –

Keith Cosentino: That made it perfect.

Sal Contreras: – to make it perfect. That’s really important because if you’re packing up your tools and you put your tools away and then you go and look at your work, and you see something, what’s gonna happen? Ah, oh, well.

Keith Cosentino: Yep. Exactly.

Sal Contreras: Don’t do it. Don’t put your tools away until you got everything out. If you can’t get everything out, then you’re obviously not able to glass something.

Keith Cosentino: Who was that asked? Was that one of the win questions?

Shane Jacks: Yeah. Sal liked that one. That’s a winning – who asked that, again, about the holding back from being a high-level tech? I would say 421. 421, if you can just email us at pdrcollegeonline@gmail.com, give us your info. Keith will send you those tabs out. 421, I think one thing that keeps – basically, what Sal is saying, what’s keeping that tech back is laziness. Honestly, that’s what that is, is laziness.

Sal Contreras: Not laziness. You’re in a hurry. You’re going to the next job. It’s money. You’re thinking you didn’t make enough money; you gotta go to the next one. You gotta stop and finish the repair to the highest quality and that’s money, not running to the next one to make the extra 50 bucks that day.

Shane Jacks: Drive, is one. Another one is – I see it – there was, literally, a guy that was in my shop this past summer and has been doing this for close to 20 years now, and having trouble getting on a dent. It was abundantly clear to me how to get on the thing. It’s just because I was using my mind about it. The progression of access and stuff – always use your mind. Don’t just think that because this worked the last time that it should work this time. I think that holds a lot of people back, is because they’re in a hurry. They think that tool should work. It doesn’t work. They pack up and go. “I can’t fix this dent.” Really, progression, thinking through it.

I say it constantly. PDR is as much reactive as it is proactive. Let it do what it’s giving you and roll with it from there. I think that holds a lot of guys back, just not thinking about what they’re doing. I know that sounds generic and easy but it’s the truth.

Keith Cosentino: When I’m training guys and they say, “Hey. Do you wanna come look at this and tell me what you think?” I would say, “Look at what? Is it fixed or not?” I get hard on them. I say, “All you want me to do is go over there and give you a pass and tell you your crappy work looks good. You either tell me it’s fixed or tell me it’s not fixed and you need help on how to fix it. But don’t say ‘I think it looks good. Will you look at it?’”

Sal Contreras: So you ask them – “I’m gonna go over there. Are you asking me because you want me –” Yeah. I remember that.


Keith Cosentino: One question that we just had here was “Will we give retail customers an option for drilling or not drilling?” All day long. Oh, yeah.

Sal Contreras: Who said they’re addicted to toll cut? I wanna know who said that.

Shane Jacks: I feel it was pretty good.

Sal Contreras: I’m gonna remember you.

Shane Jacks: He’s scratching his neck. So am I. Keith, Sal, and I may be fighting in a minute.


Keith Cosentino: – the last question was already –


Sal Contreras: Oh, Matt. Oh, Matt, come on, man.

Keith Cosentino: We’re gonna teach Sal to sand at the advanced skills seminar. We’re gonna put him in a seat and we’re gonna show him how to sand stuff.
Sal Contreras: Whoever that’s asking about CCC, I’ve actually thought about it, especially during hail season. It’s quite expensive, though. Those programs are not cheap, at all.

Keith Cosentino: We had a good question right here. “What do you do when a customer demands a price over the phone?” That’s a winner for me. I’m gonna answer that question.

Shane Jacks: One of the – this is Keith –

Sal Contreras: How often does that happen?

Keith Cosentino: It happens. They want a –

Shane Jacks: Oh. That is the one question that bothers me more than any other question. It’s the one that gets asked every single phone call. I literally get – this happened to me on Friday. I think it was Friday. “Hey,” and this is exact. “Hey. How much it cost to fix a dent?” That was the question.

Sal Contreras: What do you say? What’s the very first thing that comes out of your mouth?

Shane Jacks: They’re uneducated. I get that. Every dent is the same to them. “I charge $4.00 for every dent, no matter how big it is.” They don’t know what they’re coming into, but, automatically, how it pisses me off to hear that question. I hate that question.

Sal Contreras: That’s almost every call, man. It’s every call.

Shane Jacks: If I’m in a good frame of mind, I’ll say, “Well, sir, that all depends. Can you tell me what happened to the car?” You get the whole story, who did it, all that. If I’m not in a good mood and I’m back to old Shane, I go, “Well, I can’t tell that over the phone.” So, Keith, you answer that. You said you wanted to answer this.

Keith Cosentino: It’s a great question because, at first, as busy dent guys, we get mad.

Shane Jacks: Every time.

Keith Cosentino: But if you put yourself in the consumer’s standpoint, and you’re calling for something you’ve never purchased before –

Shane Jacks: Like I said, they don’t know.

Keith Cosentino: – we had to call for a professional video crew to come and fill our dent skills seminar. I have no idea how much that should cost. I have no idea, right? It could be $1,000.00 or $100,000.00. I don’t know. I have some ideas where it should be but I don’t know. So I always look at it from the standpoint of the consumer.

I would never call somebody to my house without at least knowing a range of what it’s gonna cost. When I had a guy come and remove some squirrels from my house, I needed to know is it gonna be $100.00, 300, 500?

Sal Contreras: So you’re that guy that asks that question, how much.

Keith Cosentino: But I’m not pinning him to it.

Sal Contreras: No. No. But you want something constantly.

Keith Cosentino: I need to know what am I getting into.

Sal Contreras: Will you allow someone in your house who didn’t give you that price but you liked the way they described how they’re going to come up with it, fees, and just give a general outline of everything, give you the different options? Because there are options. Wouldn’t you want that person over there that was more articulate?

Keith Cosentino: Yeah, I probably would, but they would have to do their job of stepping around that. I would ask them every –

Sal Contreras: No, but it’s the same person that had the top reviews, the same person that was maybe referred, and you’re still trying to get a price out of them. Are you still gonna get a price out of them?

Keith Cosentino: I still would say at the very last step, “Hey, this sounds great. I’m looking forward to seeing you Friday.”

Sal Contreras: I’d never give it to you.

Keith Cosentino: “But can you give me an idea of the average job? Is it 500? Is it 5,000?”

Sal Contreras: I could see that industry being down to certain dollar-per-hour for five hours. I could see that.

Keith Cosentino: And consequently, the squirrel guy is on par with a PDR guy for a rate.

Sal Contreras: Oh, yeah?

Keith Cosentino: Yeah. Yeah. Hour and a half, 500 bucks.

Sal Contreras: What?

Keith Cosentino: My squirrels are gone. You wanna complain about it? He was gonna come back another time and check to make sure, but they weren’t even in my house, by the way. They were just in a cove and I thought they were in. But I said, “Hey. He did the job he said he was gonna do. What do I care if he’s here for nine hours sweating all over my house or it’s done in an hour?” You gotta be on the other side of the equation sometimes.

Shane Jacks: Patrick’s getting into the squirrel industry.

Keith Cosentino: Dude, this guy was crushing it and they were busy all the time, top Yelp reviews.

Sal Contreras: But the thing is that you are that guy that wants a price range.

Keith Cosentino: Yep. That’s why to go around “What do I do when a customer demands a price range from me over the phone?” I say, “Listen, there’s no way I can tell you exactly what it’s gonna cost unless I already have the car in front –”

Sal Contreras: But do you give him a range?

Keith Cosentino: Yeah. I said, “Most of the repairs like you’re describing end up falling somewhere between $400.00 and $800.00.” I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that because I know I’m not gonna do it cheaper and I’m probably not gonna do it more expensively.

Sal Contreras: But what happens on the average when you go out there? Do you ever get that 800 or are you always in between?

Keith Cosentino: Nope. I’ll get the 8 sometimes, or more.

Sal Contreras: But I’m saying on the majority of the times.

Keith Cosentino: Majority of the time –

Sal Contreras: You’re not hitting that 8. You’re in the middle, down lower.

Keith Cosentino: I’m in the top – if the bottom is zero and the top’s 100 percent, I’m at 75 to 90.

Sal Contreras: What if it’s a $900.00 job and you went $400.00 to $800.00?

Keith Cosentino: That’s totally easy. I say, “Listen. Of course, I couldn’t see anything on the phone. We were talking and you did a really great job of describing it. But this part here is important to me.” If there’s a reason it’s 900 bucks, there’s a reason. And if I knew it before, I would have talked about it before.

Sal Contreras: But you got there.

Keith Cosentino: I’m there. I’m in front. I know they’re in at 800. They’re gonna be in at 9 as long as I do a good job of selling it to them. And I like when they have the price range because that way, when I get there, they don’t go, ‘Oh, man. You know what, Keith? You’re a great guy and you’re attractive and I’m glad you’re here, but I thought this was gonna be 50 bucks. There’s no way I can do this. I had no idea it was gonna be 900.” So I like when they ask me.

Sal Contreras: I tell you. I find out a lot from when you describe the damage. If they say “It’s a red car, it’s on the right rear door, and I just gently hit another car. It’s a small dent, but I just really need to know a price range.” I already know that it’s probably not a small dent and the body shop price is gonna be really high, so I have a – I can get up pretty high but I gotta see the car. I don’t know. That’s a tough one. I don’t do ranges. It doesn’t work for me, at least.

Keith Cosentino: So when the customer demands a price what do you say? What’s your line?

Sal Contreras: When the first question that they ask is, “How much?” the first thing is say is “I don’t know.” I just give a pause. I just pause. What I want out of that pause –

Shane Jacks: That’s the smart aleck Shane side I was telling about.

Sal Contreras: If I pause, then the next thing they’re gonna say is either “Why not? You’re the professional here,” or they’re gonna be – and this happens more often than you think – they always say, “Oh, I see. You have to look at it.” Once I get them to say that, just after those three words, then I start getting them thinking that I have to see it now, and your question is, in a way, irrelevant. And I get around that. Because once you go into say any kind of price, then, at least in my case, you’ve automatically kinda handicapped yourself, when it could be a lot higher when you get there.

But the best part of getting there and seeing it, you’re probably the only guy that gave the estimate. Everybody else is – you know. That’s what I noticed. I noticed. I’m one of the few guys that actually get to it because I won’t give the range.

Keith Cosentino: Let me give a disclaimer. That is if the first question from the customer is ‘How much?’ that’s a totally different person, different customer than the last question is “By the way, how much is this gonna cost?”

Sal Contreras: Oh, I see.

Keith Cosentino: If they lead with “Yo, man. How much to fix a dent?” then we’re out.

Shane Jacks: Then it’s out, yeah.

Keith Cosentino: But if they say, “I saw your reviews. I’m looking to have this done.” We talk all about it and at the end they say, “Okay. I need to know how much this is gonna cost,” I can say, “Listen. I can’t tell you exactly how much it’s gonna cost unless I’m there in person.” “Okay, that’s fine. But how much around should it be?” “Well, again, not until I measure it will I know exactly.”

Sal Contreras: But you’ve already asked them what car, what model, what year, and all that stuff.

Keith Cosentino: I know all that stuff. The first question – gone.

Sal Contreras: [Inaudible] [01:00:48] Chinese food or something.

Shane Jacks: I know. I had a question about do we stay away from any of the – certain dents or damage because of metals, I don’t. Metal doesn’t bother me. There are some, if it’s aluminum – yes. There are some things that are off limits, but just because it’s a certain metal, no, we don’t stay away.

Some of these questions I’m going to run through real quick. We are pretty deep into this thing, right now.

Keith Cosentino: We’re an hour deep, already.

Shane Jacks: How many do we have handed out right now? Four?

Keith Cosentino: Four.

Shane Jacks: Derek asked a question. Derek, I am not going out on Keith’s route with him. Bump all that noise. Derek asked, “Where do we see the industry going in 2016?” I guess we can say “and beyond that.”

Sal Contreras: Big dents.

Shane Jacks: Big dents.

Sal Contreras: Big dents.

Shane Jacks: That’s Sal’s answer for everything.

Keith Cosentino: And more shops.

Shane Jacks: I think shops. I like that question because, honestly, I think shows like this and some other stuff that’s happening out there in the industry is changing things for the better. And I think that that’s where it’s headed, is bigger dents, more difficult stuff, more shops, higher prices, better selling, better marketing.

Keith Cosentino: Better expectation of quality from the customers.

Shane Jacks: Higher expectation of quality. That’s gonna happen naturally as the industry gets older, also.

Keith Cosentino: When you can get on YouTube and see Sal and Shane’s repairs, you’re making it hard – both of you guys are making it hard for any dent guy to be in business, with the stuff you guys are taping and putting online.

Sal Contreras: Somebody just asked about aluminum and stuff. I tell you, man. That’s a whole new thing to work on. If you’re studying metal, metal, metal, avoiding aluminum, you’re making a big mistake right now. You have to put your time into aluminum. You have to. Because it’s gonna be around.

Shane Jacks: Derek, we’re gonna send you some tabs, so send us your information.
Keith Cosentino: Derek Yost. And whoever asked that question about demanding money on the phone? I don’t know who that was. Email pdrcollegeonline@gmail and say that was your question. And I’ll know if you’re faking me. You’re gonna get free tabs when you win.

Shane Jacks: Sal, I’ve got a couple of them that I want one-word answer for because of time. Sal, what kind of glue are you using for big dents?

Sal Contreras: TabWeld. Next.

Shane Jacks: Most versatile dent dial.

Sal Contreras: 22 heavy.

Shane Jacks: 22 heavy.

Sal Contreras: How do I handle dealers?

Shane Jacks: We’re not going into that one.

Keith Cosentino: Oh. Stop. Awesome.

Sal Contreras: As far as dealers, don’t be afraid to share a dealer and not try and muscle it away from somebody. It’s one of the best ways to get a dealership.

Shane Jacks: One-on-one training?

Sal Contreras: That’s what I’m going to be doing this, soon.

Shane Jacks: Oh. Sal’ll be doing it.

Sal Contreras: I wanna get in two more guys ride with me.

Keith Cosentino: How much?

Sal Contreras: 800 a day.

Keith Cosentino: He’s gonna answer it.

Shane Jacks: How much?

Sal Contreras: 800 a day.
Shane Jacks: You’re cheaper than me. The first time ever.

Keith Cosentino: Somebody busting my chops is saying what’s your real answer for what glue you use for big dents?

Sal Contreras: TabWeld is all I use, and the green Burro glue, when they had it. That was really good. I think the TabWeld; I’m finding is not the best for my temperature. The Burro green was the best. And then Arrow. I was using that for a while.

Keith Cosentino: Arrow. Yeah. I used to use Arrow before I bought good glue. The TabWeld –

Shane Jacks: Tell me the truth, idiot.

Sal Contreras: When you’re pouring it with the amount I’m pouring it on these big dents, I don’t think that any glue really –

Keith Cosentino: You’re right.


Shane Jacks: Oh, yeah. When you use them that much, yeah. You could use bubble gum.

Keith Cosentino: Have you guys seen that slide hammer with the cold glue? That guy in Brazil?

Sal Contreras: That’s pretty cool. That was on a rail, he did that.

Keith Cosentino: You can get it now. One of our loyal listeners, Paulo, in Florida’s got it. He’s wanted to talk to me about it. Paulo, you’re probably on right now because you’re always around. I apologize. I haven’t been able to talk to you about it, but I am interested to hear what you have to say about it. It sounds interesting –

Sal Contreras: Somebody has it.

Shane Jacks: Paulo’s over here.

Keith Cosentino: Oh. Paulo, you’re on Shane’s side, huh?

Shane Jacks: Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Sal Contreras: Cold glue.
Keith Cosentino: You can get it on James Lee’s site. He’s out of stock but he’s gonna carry it. It’s 500 bucks for a slide hammer and a couple of attachments and the glue.

Sal Contreras: But it lasts forever?

Keith Cosentino: I don’t know. I don’t know if you use that glue over and over again or what. Paulo, do you use the glue over and over again?

Sal Contreras: Proof. He said it’s very good. It’s gotta be proof. You gotta show it. That’s what I’m into. You gotta show it.

Keith Cosentino: He can sell it, too, because he speaks Portuguese.

Shane Jacks: There you go.

Sal Contreras: Paulo can sell it.

Keith Cosentino: Paulo, can you use the glue over and over again?

Sal Contreras: Ten years use.

Shane Jacks: Ten years use.

Sal Contreras: Wow.

Keith Cosentino Paulo, you been using it for ten years?

Shane Jacks: Somebody asked me, while we’re waiting on – Paulo will talk to Keith and he will get back with us. Keith will let everybody know what’s going on. I was also asked, this is a one-word answer. Have it at the seminar. Yeah, bring it, Paulo. That’d be awesome. That’d be cool.

Trevor6 asks me what my favorite light stand for hail was. Currently, it is the Chubby 46 from Pro PDR Solutions. I went from the Fat Head to that Chubby. It’s just a hair shorter and a hair narrower, but, man, I love that thing. The fade on that is a little different and it’s better. And they keep coming out with these new lights and all this new stuff. It changes by the year. By the time you guys get everything that I have, I’m 10,000 deep every year from buying new lights and what not. If you listen to everything I say, well, you’re gonna be broke.

Keith Cosentino: One of these days, somebody’s gonna understand how big of a fricking deal we are and start sending us some free tools to test.

Shane Jacks: Yes, exactly. Hint, hint. Chubby HD. That is right, Matt. It is the Chubby HD. I should have said that, Chubby HD 46.

Keith Cosentino: Oh, man. Shane is kicking my butt on hearts. He’s blowing up like his phone’s broken.

Shane Jacks: It happens.

Keith Cosentino: Mine’s done. Hey, they we go.

Shane Jacks: I’m glad to see you on here, Matt. Matt’s a good guy. Mr. Matt Norman.

Keith Cosentino: Now my hearts are coming back.

Shane Jacks: And mine are going away. Anything else, Sal, you wanna share with us?

Keith Cosentino: No, it won’t pull paint very often. One guy asked us “Does glue pulling pull paint often?” No. Not if you know what you’re doing.

Sal Contreras: It rarely, rarely does.

Keith Cosentino: “Lights or no lights after repairing extreme dent or just natural and why.” Shane and Sal, I think you’ve been back and forth over the years, lights, no lights when you’re doing big dents.

Sal Contreras: No lights. What I mainly do these days –


Sal Contreras: – is I don’t – I’m not out there as a tech as much as I am R&D. That’s all I kinda do now. I definitely say no lights, no boards. At some point, I’m gonna come out with sessions six and seven, which will explain that. But I firmly do not believe in lights and boards. Make sure that goes on the record.

Keith Cosentino: I’ve seen you using lights in front of your photos.

Sal Contreras: No. No. No. I guess what I wanna say is that I use them during a certain stage of the repair. But to finish a repair, I technically – at least from my research, it hinders you from repairing it to glass, using a board or a light.
Keith Cosentino: And we went –

Shane Jacks: I respectfully agree and disagree. Keith, as you know, I’m also – at the end of my repairs, a lot of times I will move my light completely away and use my hammer and blend some at the end. It just depends, on the situation, honestly, for me. Sometimes I think you’re right and sometimes – this will be a shocker to you, Sal – I disagree with you sometimes.

Sal Contreras: I can prove it.

Keith Cosentino: We’re all three gonna be at the advanced skills seminar, so we can talk about it in person in front of dents and with lights. We could get a real good idea about what exactly you’re talking about. But I had posed this question the other day or a year or two ago, and that was how far away do you have to put your light before it’s called a natural reflection?

Sal Contreras: That’s right.

Keith Cosentino: Somewhere between up close and a mile away, it’s the same thing. Really, what you’re saying when you say no lights is no lights close. Because that reflection that you’re grabbing from across the street or –


Sal Contreras: But what is that light that you’re putting in the distance? What, technically, is it? It’s a 90-degree –

Keith Cosentino: It’s just a –

Sal Contreras: No. No. But it’s just 90 degrees. Honestly, right? So, if you’re looking out in the distance and you have a line, and you put it vertical or whatever, it’s just 90 degrees.

Keith Cosentino: 90 degrees to your repair surface, you’re saying.

Sal Contreras: 90 degrees to you. To your eyes. If you’re trying to find low spots that are multi-directional, and you’re passing one angle across them, you create illusions. At some point, if you’re relying on this 90-degree line wherever you put it, at least, I believe that’s what helped me the most is that you’ve got to – if you’re gonna use a board or a light and you’re looking at it, look to your right and look to your left and confirm everything. That helps you move it.
If you look at your board and push it, and move your board here and say, “Oh, that one’s a good one. Oh, that one’s a good one.” I call that random pushing. I don’t believe in it. You should have a methodical strategy how to finish it out. There’s a really good way to do it using natural reflection.

Keith Cosentino: Is that something you can teach the guys at the seminar?

Sal Contreras: No. That’s one-on-one training.

Keith Cosentino: He can show the concept, anyway.

Sal Contreras: One-on-one training really makes you teach a student in their environment, literally, with their tools on working the roof across the street from where they’re working on. When you teach them how to use all those angles, you really have to do it in person. That’s the way I look at it. That’s why I have to do one-on-one training to really do it. But then my DVD sessions six and seven will, hopefully, try and explain it.

Keith Cosentino: So you’ve got some more DVDs coming out pretty soon.

Sal Contreras: Yeah. I have my final sessions. Since 2008, I’ve had a session one, two, three, four, and five which have been kind of the mainstay. Now, I’m coming out with sessions six and seven, which is the final in the series. One of them is gonna be how to finish perfect to where it’s a strategy that’ll really take you to the end.

Keith Cosentino: Right now you can get one through five? They’re available?

Sal Contreras: Yes.

Keith Cosentino: Where do you find those?

Sal Contreras: That’s at dentexperttraining.com.

Keith Cosentino: About how much do those cost?

Sal Contreras: They’re $35.00 apiece.

Keith Cosentino: That’s pretty cheap. Do you have a package you can buy all five together?

Sal Contreras: Yes. It’s less than $200.00 and they’re sent all over the world.
Keith Cosentino: Nice. No downloadable content, though, just DVDs. We want people to be able to copy them.

Sal Contreras: I tell you what. I have content on vimeo.com where you can pay per view. And I’m gradually going that route, but I noticed that people like something tangible.

Keith Cosentino: Yeah. It is nice to have a DVD.

Sal Contreras: I don’t know. I still might stick with DVD. It makes it more exclusive. Guy puts it away on his shelf and doesn’t want no one to see it.

Keith Cosentino: Do you have a release date for those other two DVDs?

Sal Contreras: I’m in the position now where I can say I’ll probably have it done in May. Pretty exciting.

Keith Cosentino: I’m looking forward to them. I’d like to watch those.

Okay. I guess we need to wrap up. We’re about an hour and 12 minutes into this. It’s been a great show. Thank you guys for sticking with us on Periscope all this time. David, I will send you some tabs, you sucker. Yeah, it was a good question. Ask Sal how many lights he used to win the Dent Olympics.

Sal Contreras: That’s a good question. The reason why I used so many lights because it’s hard to find a reflection in people’s legs when they’re around me walking around. I usually can’t, sometimes, so I needed that many lights. But if I was able to look passed all the crowd, I’d probably just use reflections.

Keith Cosentino: All right, Eric, you’re right. I told you I’d answer your question and I didn’t. Thank you for reminding me.

Sal Contreras: “Any tool reviews this week?” You guys do tool reviews?

Keith Cosentino: Yeah, we do. But not send us a tool and we’ll review it, although there’s a little bit of that. Mostly, we just talk about a tool that we’ve already been using that we know we can get behind.

Let’s answer this question because I did promise Eric I’d ask it. Type it for me again, Eric, so I know exactly what you want me to answer. I remember the gist of it, but I don’t –


Shane Jacks: Thank you, Patrick. We appreciated it. And Matty. Or Matthew. I just read what it says, Matty. Sorry about that, Matt.

Sal Contreras: That’s nice of Matt to say that.

Keith Cosentino: “Once you’ve created a prototype tool and it’s working well for you, what would be the next step to do?” Really good question. First one, send it to Keith and Shane so they can make sure it’s also good. Oh, it’s a depth gauge. Guys want the depth gauge. I’m making another batch of them. I’ve been lazy because I’ve had other things working. But I’ll have some at the show and before the show, a little bit.

Shane Jacks: I wouldn’t call it lazy. He’s had plenty going on.

Keith Cosentino: Let’s answer this tool prototype question because we’ve all done it. Sal can’t even talk about his prototypes, even after they’re in the market.


Sal Contreras: Hey, if you have a prototype and it works, what is the next thing you should be doing is using it in every situation possible, at least six months to a year. And almost try and make it fail. Honestly. Get it out there with a few people to try and have them make it fail. And if it passes all of that, then it’s time to look into something. I can’t tell you how much it makes a difference when you send a tool out there and people respond saying, “It works. It works. It works.” It’s really important. You may have a great prototype but there’s ways of using it, it could fail that you haven’t tried yet unless you put it to the test.

Keith Cosentino: I’m gonna agree with almost everything you said, but I’m gonna change it a little bit. I’m not gonna wait six months or a year of testing on my own. Once I build that prototype and use it for two weeks and it works, and I’m confident that it’s a decent tool, I’m gonna send it to the ten guys that I know will be honest with me and that will use it. Then I’m gonna tell them to try and break it. Then I’m gonna use that feedback, come up with version two, if I need to, and then send it out again.

Shane Jacks: Thanks, Taurus.

Sal Contreras: I guess you already have in the pipeline things going. I think somebody asking that question might have just one, maybe working on for so long.

Keith Cosentino: But if you get it and you’ve got it and you’re using it and you’re out of ideas in your own mind on how to make it better, there’s no use in waiting for six months. Let the other guys break it and tell you where it sucks. Make sure you choose guys who are honest. What I learned about selling tools is people will find the craziest ways to break your stuff that you’ve never thought of.

Sal Contreras: That’s right.

Keith Cosentino: There’s a guy that tried to jack up a car with a Jack hammer and bent it in half. I can’t confirm that’s true, or not, but –

Shane Jacks: Are you serious?

Keith Cosentino: No. But guys’ll do crazy stuff to break things and you won’t see it coming. So get it out there and get feedback from other technicians ASAP. Then you gotta worry about finding somebody to make it for you or make it yourself. Make it yourself is – you’re now trading dollars for hours – dollars pushing dents to dollars grinding tools. It doesn’t make a lot of sense. Sometimes you gotta get somebody to make the tools for you.

Sal Contreras: Hey, I’m almost out of it. Rising up finally, getting out of this.

Keith Cosentino: Shane, do you have anything to add to that?

Shane Jacks: No. Exactly what you said, Keith. With the hammer and with the edge jack I went a little longer than two weeks. Well, actually, no. With the edge jack, that thing worked so stupid spectacular the first time I put it on the car; I literally had to make bam! Like that, send them out to several guys to try out and was to market within two months, I believe. So it was pretty quick.

Keith Cosentino: Perfectionism is the enemy of tool production. If you try to wait ‘til that thing’s perfect, it’s never gonna get to market.

Shane Jacks: I’ve seen it, since we learned about it a couple weeks ago at a class we were at. It said, “If you don’t look back on something and go ‘I really, really could have made that better,’ then you spent too much time on it.” Get it out there. Get it out.

Keith Cosentino: That’s an awesome question. We could go on for days about how to get it made, but look for help. Look for the –

Sal Contreras: What I could tell you, though, about getting it made, all right, because I went that route and it’s the honest truth. If I had gone to the professionals to make my tool, they would have had me do it in a way that it would have never worked and I would never pursue the tool. Don’t be afraid to make something yourself, especially if you have the skills because you may put something together that – just out of accident. That’s happened to me. Out of accident it worked. If I didn’t make it the way I did initially, I wouldn’t have known because the professional would told me, “Oh, no. The way you should do this is like this.” I would have tried it. It didn’t work. I would abandon it.

Don’t be afraid to experiment and try and make it. Use it. At some point that has merit. That’s what happened to me.

Keith Cosentino: That’s a great point. When you’re coming up with something new, it’s new. They are gonna try and plug you into their system of making things, and you’re trying to make something new. Now, maybe you’re not. Maybe you’re making pliers with a different tip – that’s not new. Go with the guy who makes pliers and say you need a different tip.

Sal Contreras: They’ll talk you out of your crazy idea. That’s what you have to watch out for. They’ll talk you out of something because they’re thinking in terms of volume. They’re thinking in terms of cost and what their machines can do. They don’t know what you do for a living or how you’re going to do that, so be careful about being talked out of something that sounds kind of crazy. That’s why sometimes you’re gotta go with crazy and see if crazy works.

That’s what happened to me. It honestly worked so well I didn’t realize that I wouldn’t have had it unless I just did it anyway. All I say is that if you have the skills, build it on your own. Try it and don’t necessarily go to somebody to make it because they may make it wrong.

Keith Cosentino: It’s definitely a balance between getting help from pros and taking their advice because sometimes it’s really good, and telling them “No. I’m not gonna do it the way you say to do it because that’s not what I want. That’s not my vision.” And they will try to move you around to the point that they’re profitable and it’s easy for them to make.
Sal Contreras: Or you run into what I could have run into if I didn’t make it. You’ll change it. In my case, I have 60 pieces I got to put together. Sometimes the measurements are different, but as you use it, you can change it. If you buy 1,000 pieces of something that originally was your great idea that you had out too quick, you’ll have those 1,000 pieces still in your garage because you changed it. You’re the guy doing the R&D. You realized, “Oh, it could be about another half inch longer.” You’re stuck with those 1,000 pieces.

So you gotta watch out when you’re working with manufacturers. I still have to go that route. So I kind did it backwards. I don’t not recommend it but it’s a long haul.

Keith Cosentino: One thing I know we all can agree on. It’s way harder than you think. It’s way harder than you think. You think it’s just we’re at home clicking on websites and collecting checks. It’s a grind. It’s not easy to do. I still would do it, but it’s hard. It’s a lot of work. Please do it, too, if you have an idea because that’s what makes the entire industry better. But, man, it’s a lot of work.

Okay, guys. I think we gotta wrap it up. It’s been an awesome show. If you –


Shane Jacks: Sorry for the few questions we didn’t get answered. I think we got a good many of them answered, though.

Keith Cosentino: If you have a question that you’re really dying to ask us, we’ve given our email about a thousand times. Email us a question or go on our website, pdrcollege.com, and leave a voice mail on the SpeakPipe, would you. We can answer that, and if you don’t want it on the show we won’t put it there. But if you want us to answer on the show, we’ll do that, too. That’s kind of fun. That’s pdrcollege.com, SpeakPipe.

Just a little housekeeping to let you guys know what’s going on. We are getting closer and closer to releasing the PDR College online community, which Shane and I are really excited about. Sal’s super excited. He doesn’t even know what I’m talking about. It’s gonna be a big deal. Keep watching us. We’re looking to launch that thing in January. Stay in the loop. Make sure you’re on our email list.

Sal Contreras: What’s it gonna be? A group?
Shane Jacks: Uh-huh.

Keith Cosentino: And we will catch you guys on the flip side.

Sal Contreras: Thank you. Thanks for watching.

Shane Jacks: Thanks, guys.

Keith Cosentino: Until next time, get better.

[End of Audio]

Duration: 82 minutes

PDR COLLEGE Podcast #80

Start PDR From Scratch?

Blackplague Tabs Watch the video

Shane Jacks Blending Hammer

German LAKA Glue Tabs

Dentcraft Hail Rod


Keith Cosentino: I’m Keith Cosentino, he’s Shane Jacks and this is the PDR College podcast where we want you to go out there, square up toe to toe with mediocrity, fake with a left and come with a strong right-hand karate chop to the throat. Drop mediocrity to the ground and arise triumphantly on its lifeless body in the clutches of success.

That was very dramatic but, man, we want you to get out there and crush it. We want you to quit being okay with okay and let’s be spectacular in the dent-removal business. That’s what we’re excited about and that’s what we wanna help you with every single day. Except on the weekends I want you to take a little bit of time off.

Speaking of time off, Mr. Shane Jacks has been enjoying plenty of it as of late. He will be absent for this episode but he will be back next week, together he and I, the dynamic duo, feeding off of each other’s expertise and making the show even better. But for tonight we’re gonna talk about a couple of different things.

Of course I say tonight but that doesn’t mean you are listening tonight. You are probably listening this morning but I’m recording this in an evening because that’s how I roll. I’ve got a lot of stuff going on during the day and the evening is my time to do a podcast.

So before we get into it, I want to let you know if you haven’t already seen an email from me with an audio clip, look for that. And if you’re not on our email list, hop over to PDRCollege.com and check out the bonus episode. It’s gonna sit right between episode 79 and 80. And I put a little bonus audio together for you to just kinda kick start you with your phone work and then give you an idea about what we could do if we wanted to dig dipper on phone skills and how I can help with that.

So if that sounds like something you want a little bit of coaching on, hop over, listen to that episode and take the next steps, if you want. But that’s going to be just hanging around for a week so that’s gonna go down next Friday, at least from where it is now. It might pop up somewhere else in a different format but for the first week it’s going away after the first week. So keep an eye out for that. There’s links to it in your email if you’re on our email list, or there should be. If you didn’t see them, check your spam folders and things like that.

But a little housekeeping on our Advanced Skills Seminar, that sucker is gonna be here before you know it. And we keep adding and changing things and making it better. And, as you know, if you’ve been listening, the last update we gave you we told you we are gonna have Mr. Sal Contreras come and teach with us for at least a portion of the two days.

And if you don’t know who he is, he’s the Dent Olympic winner from last year and the originator of the Dent Dial tools that are really unique. There’s nothing else like them There’s copycats after he came out with his but they are a very unique way of fixing dents and [inaudible] [00:03:21] and just big giant smashed up stuff that you honestly probably don’t want anything to do with. But he fixes it and he does a really nice shop.

So he’s got that Dent Dial tool and just the way he attacks the dents from the back and from the surface is really unique. He uses a big what he calls a slapper tapper which is a slap hammer that he custom makes with a special bend on it and the tip. And he has a special way of striking it. So he’s just a really unique dude and we’re excited to have him come teach with us and show some of that stuff.

Well, along with him, I gotta give a shout out to our buddy Rich Routson up at DentMasters in Virginia. He sent me a message and said, “You know, there’s a dude named Bryce Kelly who is just over the top with his big dent skills as well.” And I said, “Oh, I agree 100 percent. I’ve been watching Bryce’s videos for the last handful of years and the dude just keeps getting better and better and better. And his repairs are amazing and he’s taken on some grow stuff, stuff that – I mean, I do big ugly stuff myself but, man, I’m getting tired of some of it and he just keeps getting hungrier for it.

So Rich said, “You know, you gotta ask him if he’d come because he’s a Florida guy anyway. He’s probably close by.” And I said, “That’s a great idea. I will do just that,” which I did. I reached out to Mr. Bryce and he said he’d be honored to come and teach some of his techniques for big smashes too. So we are gonna have Bryce, Sal, Shane and myself plus all of our other buddies that are gonna come and share some of their skills in their areas of discipline.

So, man, there’s gonna be a ton of high-level knowledge thrown around for those two days. I know I’m gonna learn a bunch and I’ve been in the business a long time and I’ve got a pretty good network of buddies. But if you don’t have that, your hair’s gonna get blown back and you’re gonna go back home ten times more powerful than when you left.

So get in on the email list if you’re interested in coming to the seminar. It’s two days prior to the Mobile Tech Expo in Orlando, Florida. I should have the exact dates here but I don’t. I think it’s January 26 and 27 but I’d have to check the calendar. There’s only gonna be a limited number of spots. It’s gonna be a little larger than it was last year, which is kinda – it was really small last year because we wanted it that way.

We wanted to work out the kinks. Shane and I had never held an event like that but now we have and we know a couple of things we wanna tweak to make it better and we’ll be able to accommodate just a few more people. But it’s still gonna be a limited number.

So what we end up doing is keeping everybody on an email list and then sending out an offer to subscribe to the seminar to attend it in the order with which people have subscribed to the email list so that if somebody’s been waiting forever get a first shot in there. So if you’re interested, get on there sooner than later because we don’t want you to lose a spot if you wanna be there. It’s gonna be awesome.

So that’s what’s going on with that, Bryce Kelly – his website, if you’re never heard of him, it’s CFLDentRepair.com. And he’s done a really good job of getting a lot of his videos, I’m sure it’s not all of them, but a lot of his videos up on the site so you can see what’s going on and see what he’s up to and what type of repairs he’s doing.

And honestly it’s a pretty nice website, if you wanna check it out just to see what a nice retail website should look like. It doesn’t have dancing chickens, it doesn’t have flames, it doesn’t have lasers, it doesn’t have any of that crap on there.

But what he has is a big photo of a smashed fender on a Rav4 and the fender fixed right next to it. He’s got a video right on the homepage of another nasty smash on a fender that he did on a Porsche Cayman, a little bit about what he does and what PDR is and visuals of his reviews in three different formats, Yelp, Facebook, texting right there on the homepage. And I’m looking from a desktop when I talk about this. I believe it’s a responsive site so it’s gonna look a little different on your phone. But if you just wanna check that out to see what a guy who knows what he’s doing is doing, have a peek. And he’s got a nice little schedule-repair button like I recommend.

Something tells me Bryce has taken some of my recommendations over the last year-and-a-half and put some of it to work because I like his website. But we’re excited to have him. That’s gonna be a blast. Thank you, Bryce, if you’re listening, for agreeing to come and share your knowledge. That’s what makes the industry better, everybody willing to share their high-level stuff.

You know, when this trade was created, you had knuckleheads stringing up tarps and sheets so nobody could see what they were doing. The ironic part is you could watch all you want, you still can’t do it. You need a couple years of practice. But that’s what they did.

You know, needing a couple years of practice that kinda leads me into a call-in question that we got that I’m going to answer on the show today. So let’s pipe that in here via magic and see what this question is.

Caller: Hi Shane and Keith. My name’s James Richardson. I’m from Chattanooga, Tennessee. I wanted to get y’all’s opinion on a couple of questions I had for y’all. First off, I wanted to start a local route here in town. I know there’s five other ding companies that I know of here. And I wanted to concentrate on retail work. And of course everybody’s telling me there’s no room for another tech in our area and not enough retail work. I don’t believe that just due to Keith’s thing with the cars cost the same here as anywhere else. I wanted to get y’all’s opinion on that.

And second question is I have no experience in PDR and I work at a local body shop as a production manager but wanna get into the industry. And the only way that I can do that right now is my thought was going through Dent Trainer online course and pushing dents in the evening from what I learn. I don’t know if you think this is a possibility or not but just wanted to get y’all’s opinion. Thank you for y’all’s time and all y’all’s efforts that you y’all put into the podcast. Get better.

Keith Cosentino: James, thank you for that question. It’s one that a lot of guys have. And I appreciate you for being so detailed about it and really laying it out for us and letting us know where you’re coming from and what’s going on.

So there’s a lot we’re gonna talk about about this question because there’s a lot to it. PDR is an exciting thing to get into, and especially when you’re in the body shop side. You see guys swing in, do a nice repair that looks beautiful. They do it quickly and make a decent wage; sometimes an amazing wage and they’re out of there. No chemicals, no machines, none of that stuff. So it’s very enticing to guys who are stuck at that building, especially in management working for someone else and trying to corral a bunch of guys. So you’re not the only production manager who would rather get out and get into PDR.

So you were talking about everybody tells you there’s no room. And that’s common in every market for people to say, “No, there’s no room.” But I decided I would look up the scene in Chattanooga because I’ve never even been there so I don’t know what’s going on there. And I agree that it is relatively competitive. There’s some guys with some nice sites there. So you’re gonna have a little bit of competition.

And it sounds like you know the business because you’re working in a body shop now. So you’ve got a slight advantage over somebody who’s coming in from outside the industry. You know a little bit about that, even know some adjusters and things like that probably. But you mentioned you wanted to go straight retail and that’s a fantastic place to be.

There’s always room for someone else in the retail market even if you just position yourself a little differently than everyone else in town. It’s not like you’re saying you’re better or worse but just a little different and that’s gonna appeal to some people. And some other people are gonna like your competitor side but you can make money. You may not own the market but you can work.

And I was kinda getting excited for you for a little bit there and then you mentioned that getting into PDR is what you wanna do but you don’t have any experience. Well, it just got a lot harder to do, especially getting into the retail market. I’m not sure that I could tell you that you could do it, not at least without a lot of practice.

So you mentioned the Dent Trainer site, which is an awesome site run by a couple of my buddies John Hiley and Mike Toledo. And these guys know what they are doing when it comes to fixing a car and running a dent business. They are a couple of studs and they got together and put this system together of I don’t know how many videos, over 100 I believe, videos mostly on dent techniques. But I think they’ve also started doing some business development stuff and some marketing stuff. And they’re trying to help in every way that they can via that site Dent Trainer.

So there’s no doubt you would learn a lot from Dent Trainer but, man, it is going to be an uphill battle without someone over your shoulder telling you, no, no, no, no, not like that, like this. Because I haven’t watched many of their videos, if I’m being completely honest, on the Dent Trainer side but I’ve been buddies with Mike and John for years. And I’ve seen the stuff they do and I know they do great videos but you can’t see everything in a video.

You can’t see that John’s thumb is on the shaft of the tool and not wrapped around the handle. You can’t see that he’s bracing his left elbow on his knew when he’s on this fender because it gives him more stability. All the little things that you’re gonna figure out the hard way, it’s gonna be tough to learn those from a video.

By no means am I discouraging you from going to Dent Trainer and subscribing because you’re gonna learn a ton. But if you’re gonna get into the retail market; you’ve got some seasoned competitors there. I spent a few minutes looking at some of the websites and some of them suck. But a couple of them are really nice, or at least pretty nice.

But regardless of the website, I can tell that the guys – there’s a couple guys in town that know what they’re doing. They can fix a car. So you’re gonna be competing with that. And that’s ten years, fifteen years of practice to get to those levels. That’s not easy. That is gonna be a tough, tough market to compete in.

I’m not saying you can’t do it. For some guys the most powerful fuel in the world comes from someone else saying they can’t do it. And there are plenty of PDR guys that have taught themselves from scratch in exactly the same situation as you or very similar. You know, they’re painters or they’re body guys So you can do it but if you were my buddy from high school and you called me and said, “This is what I wanna do,” this is not the path I would recommend for you.

I’d say, “Listen, you need to get in front of a guy who knows what he’s doing and pay him whatever he needs to train you. And it won’t be easy to find that guy because not a lot of guys wanna train other guys. And fellas that are busy and good don’t really have time to slow down and train somebody unless they’re gonna be very highly compensated. And most people will get some sticker shock at that.

Now there’s some trainers around the country that have a good reputation but that’s not how I learned so I can’t tell you that’s a great way to go, you know, going to a specific trainer. I think that’s the best bet if you can’t get somebody to work with on a long-term basis who’s gonna show you everything. If you can’t get that I would suggest gong to a trainer.

And if you wanted to spend a couple of months on the dent trainer’s side and practice at home, then go to the trainer, I don’t think that’s a bad idea. A lot of guys would tell you you’re gonna make bad habits and then have to unlearn them. But as long as you understand that might happen, it’ll still help your eyes adjust to seeing what you’re supposed to see and knowing what you don’t know at least, what you think you don’t know initially, that’ll help you get farther faster with a trainer, I believe.

I think if you ask the trainers they might tell you something different. They might say, “Come to me first, then go home and practice,” which that would work as well. But the first couple of months on your own with a dent trainer’s gonna be cheaper. And you may realize that you don’t like to do it, or you may realize that you are definitely into it and you love it. And then when you go to the trainer, you’re gonna be more willing to do the homework that he sends you home with because it’s gonna be a lot of homework.

You can’t learn to fix cars in three, five, six weeks. It’s not gonna happen. You can learn how you’re supposed to do some repairs but you gotta get experience. You gotta get cars coming to you with crazy dents, smashed up fenders into the doors and dings in weird places. You’re never gonna get the easy dents in the retail business. You’re gonna get junk. And I don’t mean stuff that can’t be fixed or shouldn’t. I just mean this junk is just random, different, crazy, hard dents. And to be consistent, to be that guy that keeps getting good reviews you gotta consistently perform high-quality repairs in all these different circumstances. And that takes a lot of experience.

So I don’t know if I would advise you to go right into retail. I think you might be setting yourself up for failure. I would advise you to work on as many cars as you can and sometimes that means working at crappy dealers even if you make almost no money. At least you’re getting paid to practice and you stay there and work until the cars look right. And then, you know, you’re just gonna fire those guys and move into the retail eventually.

But that’s probably what I would tell you. If you’ve got kids or a family rather, a family with a wife and kids, it’s gonna be really tough to practice anything at night consistently. If you’re a single guy and you can just do whatever you want, that’s a different story. But if you’ve got little ones and a wife who enjoys your company or even a girlfriend, practicing PDR two or three hours a night is gonna get old real fast. And people are gonna be tugging you away from it. So you’ve gotta be committed.

I guess that’s not the most inspiring answer you wanted to hear, James, but that’s the truth, man. That is the truth is it is not easy to break into but it’s very lucrative once you’re here. So that’s why there’s very few guys get out of the business. Guys get in and if they get good they stay in because it’s a great living and it’s a great lifestyle. But it’s not easy. If it was super easy, the market would be terrible because it’d be flooded with guys that just picked up the tools.

That’s something we didn’t even talk about is tools, how much you’re gonna spend on them. And you can probably start for a thousand bucks but you’re gonna need another three or four or five grand in tools once you’re up and running if you’re gonna do retail because you’ve gotta be geared up for everything. You gotta be ready to do a hail car or a fender kicked in. Retail’s a different market.

So that’s what I got for you. I’m sure there’s a lot of people out there with similar circumstances and I’m sure we helped them as well. So thank you for asking the question. I’m glad I could answer it. If you have a follow-up question, please ask it on the speak pipe widget on our website PDRCollege.com. There’s a little gray bar on the side. You click that sucker and you can leave a voicemail from a phone or a computer. And that’s exactly what James did, and we thank him for that.

So moving on to the next topic, there’s some new technology out there for phones, mobile devices that I started goofing around with. And I think we’re gonna give it a shot here on the PDR College. This application is called Periscope and you may have heard of it already. You may know exactly what’s going on with it and you may have never heard of it.

If you’ve never heard of it, it’s an application that you can use to stream live video to multiple users at once and it’s all free. So if you download the Periscope app on your phone, you can follow people who broadcast or you can just browse around the world and see who’s broadcasting at this very minute and watch their channel. I don’t know why you’d wanna do that except just it’s kinda cool for a second to see what’s going on in Hawaii right now.

But I use it to follow a couple of internet business people who I think are on the cutting edge. So I’m interested to see what kinda stuff they pop up with. But I thought, man, this would be really cool to stream some situations that I run into in real time in real life out in the dent world. You know, we’ve got an interesting customer or car or whatever.

So I don’t know when those things are gonna happen but I’ve got the app on my phone now and when I come across something, I will broadcast it. So you guys gotta download Periscope to your phone and then do a search for me. You can just type PDR College and I’ll pop up there. My full name Keith Cosentino will be there. I don’t even have a little profile picture yet because I just set it up. I might have one by the time you find me but follow me.

And then the way it works is when I decide to go live, you’ll get a little alert as it’s going live. So you hear this thing go off, it has a unique little tone and if you’re not doing anything pressing you turn on the phone and there I am already streaming and talking. You can’t get there fast enough. It’s really quick.

And it’s kinda cool to know that someone else somewhere else in the world is live right now showing you something and talking about something. And then all the people who are watching can comment via text in the little text popup on the screen. And if you like what the dude or gal is talking about, you tap the screen and it floats these little hearts up which is like your way of giving feedback saying, “I enjoy what I’m watching.” So that’s like the scorecard for Periscopers, little hearts.

So we’re gonna give it a shot. If I get on there after a couple weeks and nobody watches me, that will be sad but it will be a reality and I’ll delete the app. But if I start sharing some things and you guys are interested in it, cool. Maybe it’ll be a fun little way to keep interacting and keep getting better out in the field.

And I’m sure Shane’ll be excited about this as well and he’s gonna be doing some Periscopes as well. So I don’t know what his user ID is yet so we’ll find it eventually and get it out to you. But right now just go get the app on your phone. It’s free. I believe it’s somehow hooked to Twitter. You can like sign in with your Twitter but I’m not too geeky on that so you gotta figure it out on your own. But Periscope is going to be a part of the show so let’s have some fun with it and see what we can learn.

So today, earlier in the show I talked about the special audio bonus with the little bit of phone skills coaching going on in there. And just wanna kind of expound on that a little bit. I had a compliment from a friend of mine who he tried to get a hold of me and my phones these days are generally forwarded to my lead tech. His name is Jerrod. And Jerrod handles his phone and my phone together so it’s kind of a fireball for him some days because he’s getting a ton of phone traffic.

But he is probably the best guy I know at handling it and getting through it with a system. So I’m gonna talk about his phone work and tell you the compliment I got from my friend. So my buddy tried to call me and the phone is forwarded over to Jerrod. And he gets the voicemail sometimes because Jerrod’s on the other line or whatever. And my buddy doesn’t leave a message because as soon as he figures our it’s not me he doesn’t have anything to say to him. He’s trying to get a hold of me so then he’ll text me.

But every single time when he calls and he doesn’t leave a message, he gets a call back from Jerrod every single time. So the guy’s kinda getting annoyed by it because he doesn’t want a dent repaired. He just wants to talk to me on a personal level. But he’s a salesman as well and he said, “I gotta give you a compliment.” He’s like, “If I could get my team to follow up the way Jerrod follows up, they would all double their incomes.” And I said, “Man, I appreciate that compliment.”

And I know it’s the truth because his numbers just keep going up and up and up. Every month he’s making more and more money. He’s crushing it now. He’s a really good technician but he’s crazy efficient. And he’s efficient because he’s broken it down into the system that I always talk about and he just plays by the rules. He doesn’t bend them or change them. He just does what needs to be done every time he gets a phone call.

And those things, you know a lot of them if you’ve listened to all the shows but the first one is to keep a phone log. So every phone number that rings into his phone, it gets written down on a sheet. And it’s not just a sheet with a number. It’s every section has an entire paragraph essentially of contact points about this call, the phone number, the guy’s name or gal’s name, area. There’s a million things on there. And he keeps that religiously.

So if he misses a call, the voicemail information goes in there. If there’s no voicemail, the phone number and the time goes in there and he’s gonna call them back. And his income is a direct representation of his phone work because listen, 90 percent of your contact is coming through the phone, if not more than that. I mean, that’s our main interstate of information from prospects to your wallet, coming through the phone.

So if you suck on the phone or you’re not taking it seriously, you’re missing so much business. And especially for you guys whose phone are not ringing off the hook, if you get three calls a day and you miss one of them because you didn’t call them back fast enough or you weren’t confident with your phone conversation, it’s 33 percent less than you could’ve been making.

If you get 20 calls a day and you miss one, you’re gonna feel it as bad. But some of you guys, I know because I talk to you all the time, some of you guys get one call a day or three calls a day. You can’t afford to screw those up. You can’t afford to miss those opportunities. You’ve gotta call everybody back.

So I’m not gonna go too deep on all this stuff right here today. We’re gonna keep this show a little bit short but what I’m gonna do is challenge you. I’m gonna challenge you this week. I’m gonna challenge you to answer every single phone call that comes into your phone this week, every single one. Don’t send them to voicemail. Even if you just picked up your tool and you’re getting ready to fix something and the phone rings, put your tool down and take that call, every single one. It’s just for a week to see what happens.

The other part of the challenge is to keep a log. I don’t care what your log looks like. I would like it to look like mine but just keep a log of the date, the time, the phone number, the name, where they’re from and what the damage is and what you told them. That’s the basic stuff. Keep that log for every single person you talk to.

And then at Thursday or Friday, go back to the log and look at it and look at the people that you talked to and you couldn’t close and call them back and check in on them and see what’s going on. You will close some of those jobs that you thought were gone or that you flat out forgot about if you use this stuff properly.

So if we’re keeping the challenge you’re gonna keep a log, you’re gonna return every call. And if you miss something, if you miss a call and there’s no voicemail you’re gonna call that number back. Here’s the rub. No texting, none. If somebody texts you, you call them back every time. And if they say I can’t call, I can only text say, “Hey, that’s great. I can only call with you to talk about these details. So maybe call me in an evening when you’re free and we can talk.” Only phone calls.

And some of you are gonna kick and scream on that because you’ve gotten lazy and you’ve gotten into this bit where you’re texting everybody back and forth, back and forth. And I got news for you. Everybody is willing to negotiate on a text, everybody’s a superstar, everybody’s a tough guy when you’re just typing into a phone. You gotta get them on audio then you’re gonna get the real person. You’re gonna be able to listen to the tiny little ums and uhs and hymns and hahs. And all that stuff matters. So get off the text.

So that’s the challenge. Let me know if you’re gonna do it. Just put a comment under this episode on PDR College and say I’m taking the challenge. One week. This is Monday if you’re listening to the show when it comes out. Just until Friday, every single call. It’s not that hard but you will make more money. You will send me a message Monday or Saturday or Sunday and say, I made an extra 3, 5, 600 bucks, a thousand bucks because I snagged two jobs that I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise that were gonna go away.

So as you can tell I’m passionate about this. I can talk for hours and hours. And if I go ahead and complete the phone skills course that we were talking about, I will teach for hours and hours on it. And hint, it looks like it is going to happen. There’s already been a decent amount of volume. We just need a handful of guys more that are interested in it that’ll push us over the edge and I’ll make it.

But this is a passion of mine. I’ve gotten really good at it, I’m proud of that and I can teach it because it’s very basic. You don’t have to create magical things. You just have to follow a system. And even the line of questioning to get to the truth about what’s going on with the vehicles and the customers, it’s all in a system. You can follow it all.

So I’m excited for other guys to put that to work for themselves because I’ve seen Jerrod basically go from nothing. He was a guy who had no phone skills with his other jobs. It was not part of his life. He was not a sales guy. He was not an appointment taker. He just handled business at his other jobs. And I’ve seen him go from knowing nothing about that world to being an absolute monster.

And it’s because he didn’t try to go in there gun-slinging. He just said, okay, show me exactly what to say, show me what to write down and I’ll do it. And he does it perfectly. And the guy makes stupid money because of it. So I know you guys can do the same as long as you’ve got a little bit of traffic. That’s the only rub. The phone’s gotta be ringing a little bit. If your phone’s not ringing at all, it doesn’t matter how slick you are, you can’t make something out of nothing on the phone. So they gotta be ringing a little bit and then we can help you gather them all up and squeeze some money out of them.

So that’s the challenge, I hope you take it. Follow up with me and let me know how it goes. We’ll keep the show nice and short today but before I leave I am going to have a normal tool review we haven’t done really officially for a couple of weeks. So we had just a little bit of hail come into our town from a few hours away so we had a couple cars popping up here and there at body shops. It’s all kinda gone now.

But in the meantime I was like, oh man; I don’t really have hail tools. I’ve got plenty of tools that can do a hail job but if I’m gonna do like two or three cars, I had to call Shane and say, “Dude, I don’t know what hail rod I should get.” And he’s like, “Of course if you’re chasing hail you need ten different things but for what you’re doing you probably don’t need like a big breakdown bar but you do need a nice hail rod.” And I didn’t have one. I just had a normal fixed tip, you know, non-interchangeable tip 40 something inch rod.

So he said, “Go over to Dent Craft and get their dual-tipped hail rod and then put an R4 tip on both sides and one of them gets one of those cherry caps and the other one doesn’t. Do everything with that on the roof. Start with the soft tip, flip it around and use the bare metal.”

So I took his advice blindly because the dude is a stud, especially when it comes to hail. We all learned that in Shane’s Income Revealed episode where he’s talking about how much he’s making doing hail repairs in a week I think at that time. It was retarded. So now I listen closely when he’s talking about hail repairs.

So I got that tool and Dent Craft calls it an RHI48. That’s a 48″ hail interchangeable tip rod. And the tips are just 180 degrees of each other so you can just flip the tool upside down. But one of the things that strike you when you first grab it is that it’s not a half inch, it’s five-eighths. So it doesn’t seem like that much larger but it’s a really stout rod. I mean, that thing’s a monster.

And it’s not the longest things you’ve ever held at 48″ but it’s pretty long. And for everything but a giant SUV, it was a great roof tool. And man, with that tip set up that Shane recommends, it’s the R4 with the Dent Craft, so cherry tips on it, the little red covers. You start with that and then as you’re getting down to the last push or two, if you have to you just flip it around and then you go bare steel.

I was flying through stuff because I didn’t get that tool right away. I was using my normal tools on a car and then I got that tool and did a car or two. Big difference. So man, that’s the kinda stuff I was talking about earlier with that suggestion about how to get into the business whether you have an in-person trainer or you go on Dent Trainer or you try to learn on YouTube and practice by yourself. That’s the kinda stuff that you get from a one-on-one trainer that you’re not gonna get by yourself. Legitimate recommendations for real stuff in real time for the situations you’re dealing with.

And I’ve been doing this stuff, I don’t know, it’s my 17th year now. And since I don’t get hail, I never really had to pay attention to this kinda stuff. And now just enough cars to cross my plate that I’ve gotta think about them in a different manner than the one random one that shows up every month. This is the tool so I cannot recommend that tool highly enough. It’s 150 bucks and you’re gonna make your money back in the first five minutes you hold it.

So if you don’t have a hail rod, get it before it hails in your town or before you get a hail car. You’ll thank me when the car shows up instead of, you know, scrambling after the fact. So RHI48. We’ve got a link to it on PDRCollege.com and you can go straight to Dent Craft site and see that. So that’s the tool.

Don’t forget to go and download Periscope to your phone and follow me on it and I will make some cool live broadcasts with regard to PDR. That’s gonna be kinda fun. And I’ll have to start getting haircuts more often if you guys get to see me. All right fellas. Thanks for hanging out with me. It’s been a pleasure. I look forward to talking to you next week.

And I’m especially looking forward to that Advance Skill seminar. I know we’re a ways out but I’m pumped about it. Now that we’re starting to build that thing out it’s gonna be epic. And I don’t use that term very often but it is gonna be. It’s gonna be fantastic. So have a great day, accept my challenge, answer every call and get better.

[End of Audio]

Duration: 37 minutes

PDR College Podcast #78


We’ve talked about price anchoring before, but this time we approach it from a different angle. Let’s talk about the Ultimate Price Anchor for PDR!

ReconPro PDR Software

Edge Jack edge repair tool Video

Tabweld Glue & Smooth Series Tabs

LAKA German Glue tabs for PDR


Keith Cosentino: I’m Keith Cosentino. He’s Shane Jacks. And this is the PDR College Podcast. Every week we are bringing you the most valuable information that we have gathered in our dent removal careers, and we’re sharing it with you here on a podcast. We’re excited to be here every week. Were excited to share our opinions on tools, where the market is going and most importantly, the things that we do every day to make more money because that is what this endeavor is all about. We want giant stacks of cash. Shane, why do you want so much cash, such big stacks?

Shane Jacks: It is very simple this week, Keith. I have had a revelation over the last several days and it is because I need to buy the Florida Keys.

Keith Cosentino: I still haven’t been there.

Shane Jacks: All of it. Let’s catch up here a little bit, Keith, in our lives. We haven’t really spoken before this. It’s been a while since we’ve spoken. Right before this show, we discussed business basically, and we haven’t caught up. I wanna tell you about my week from hell.

Keith Cosentino: It was bad. If you don’t know what’s going on, Shane was on vacation last week. The guy actually takes a vacation a year. Apparently, it didn’t go that well. Now, I wanna here what happened.

Shane Jacks: You do know I’m taking another one the week after next.

Keith Cosentino: When you start making Keith and Shane money, you gotta spend it on something, so you end up taking a couple more vacations. I have one in November too.

Shane Jacks: Originally, we had plans. It was set in stone. We ordered tickets and booked a cruise for the four of us. We are on our way down to Tampa to get on that big boat. Not the one I own.

Keith Cosentino: A smaller one.

Shane Jacks: That’s run by Carnival Cruise Lines. Homeboy, we get right up above Tampa, about two hours away from the ports. We had about five hours to spare, so we’re good. We’re ready to go. Someone shot at a cop right there on the interstate.

Keith Cosentino: No way.

Shane Jacks: They shut the entire state of Florida down for the next three hours. We’re sitting there. I was taking a nap while my wife was driving. I woke up and said, “Why aren’t we moving?” We’ve been like this for 20 minutes. I get on my phone and I’m looking it up. I’m, “Holy crap. The interstate is shut down.” They re-route us. We’re sitting there completely still. At this time we’re about an hour and a half to two hours in and we have moved, literally, less than 150 or 200 yards on I-75. It’s not looking good for us. We’re starting to sweat this a little bit.

Keith Cosentino: I was gonna say, right about then is when my heart starts beating.

Shane Jacks: My daughter’s back there and she’s, “Daddy, are we gonna make it?” “We’re gonna make it.” I knew we weren’t. At that point, I said, “We’re gonna make it. It’s cool.” Man, we’re sitting there completely still and we get rear-ended.

Keith Cosentino: Isn’t that nice?

Shane Jacks: I get out. I’m already ill. I closed the door and the guy is not from around here. I start yelling at him, “What are you doing?” “I’m so sorry.” “What were you doing? We were sitting still.” He said, “I was looking at my kid in the backseat.”

Keith Cosentino: Did he just bump you or hit you pretty good?

Shane Jacks: Just bumped us. It wasn’t bad. I was just ill, mainly. He says, “It’s a rental car.” His car was a rental car and he’s starting to say that. I just looked at him, “You’re an absolute moron. Just don’t worry about it.” I get back in. At this point, the little scrub on the back of my wife’s bumper is not worth the time to wait on anybody.

Keith Cosentino: You need a new skin or just the paint?

Shane Jacks: No, it’s just the paint. So, we get back in the car. We finally get going down the interstate about an hour after that. I am flying. I am doing 95 down the interstate.

Keith Cosentino: You took the wheel at this point?

Shane Jacks: At this point, I have taken the wheel. A rock flies up and hits the windshield and cracks it on the car. We’re just saying, “Really? What else can happen?” About 20 minutes after that, it starts raining, and, apparently, when it starts raining in Florida, you hit your brakes and slow down to nothing. Long story short, we missed the cruise ship by 15 freaking minutes. My kids are upset. I’ve got really good kids. I’m really angry at this point. There’s a lot of stress in the car.

Keith Cosentino: First world problems.

Shane Jacks: I know. I’m sitting there, and I’m, “We gotta do something.” I get on my phone and I am frantically searching for what we can do. “Let’s go to the Keys.” I find a really nice resort down there that had one condo left.

Keith Cosentino: I would have gone a different route. Helicopter charter to the boat. That’s just me though.

Shane Jacks: I don’t own a helicopter yet. My yacht’s bigger than yours.

Keith Cosentino: From now on, when you need the helicopter, just call me.

Shane Jacks: Will do. I did seriously think about flying to the port, but my kids don’t have passports, so I couldn’t do that. We’re gonna get them passports, but we’re actually gonna start flying down the day before and bump all that noise.

Keith Cosentino: So, do you lose all that money?

Shane Jacks: Yes. $4,000.00, vanished.

Keith Cosentino: So sorry.

Shane Jacks: I found a really nice cottage down there in the Keys.

Keith Cosentino: In the Keys. Had you been before?

Shane Jacks: No. I’d always wanted to go. Never been. So, I get down there to the Keys and absolutely fall in love with the place. Then, we ride up to Orlando and go to Islands of Adventure.

Keith Cosentino: Horses again? All the way from the Keys to Orlando?

Shane Jacks: You’re so funny. That was my week. Seeing as you’re making fun of me, I’m gonna end the story there.

Keith Cosentino: What are the Keys like? I’ve never been there. Seems super laidback, still America, and mostly old people.

Shane Jacks: Crazy laidback. The resorts are nice and there are some extremely nice homes, but 90 percent of what’s down there are shanties basically right on the water. It’s what Jimmy Buffet sings about basically.

Keith Cosentino: Pop-Tarts on the ground or something?

Shane Jacks: Pop-Tarts.

Keith Cosentino: I don’t know. I’ve only heard a couple of his songs.

Shane Jacks: If you don’t like Jimmy Buffet, we need to just end this relationship right now. It’s better than what I thought it was gonna be because it wasn’t as developed as I thought it was gonna be. It’s still what I think it should be. It’s a Caribbean atmosphere here in the States.

Keith Cosentino: I’ve been to the Caribbean a handful of times. I’m not a huge fan. It’s all this broken down, third world stuff on relatively nice beaches, but it’s not over the top. Coincidentally, I believe you can tell people’s opinions of it by the way they pronounce the term. Pirates of the Caribbean. If they talk about the Caribbean, they’re talking about it being crappy. If they say Caribbean, like “Caribbean Queen,” the song, they usually like it. If you say, “I’ve been to the Caribbean,” it usually means you hate it. If you say Caribbean, you’re a fan.

Shane Jacks: I say Caribbean, and I love it.

Keith Cosentino: There goes that.

Shane Jacks: I don’t say Caribbean ever. I can’t say never, but it’s Caribbean. I’m sorry. Now you’ve got me confused. It’s the Caribbean. It’s just laidback. How can I describe it?

Keith Cosentino: There’s no nightlife.

Shane Jacks: I like resorts. Don’t get me wrong. I do like really nice places. I love that. That’s not where I wanna live. It’s just too pompous for me. I want laidback. That’s what I grew up in. It’s not exactly where you’re at, Keith. The water is crystal clear. We went snorkeling. The snorkeling was as good as in Cozumel, Grand Cayman, some of the other places I’ve been snorkeling. It was absolutely wonderful. The water was really calm, insanely clear, tons of fish out there. The fishing is one of the biggest fishing destinations in the world. I love deep sea fishing. Basically, I found out what I thought I knew, but I solidified it. I want to live there. I want to own the entire place

Keith Cosentino: Whenever I go somewhere like that and I enjoy it, the first thing I do is check out how much the real estate costs.

Shane Jacks: Yes. I know how much everything costs down there.

Keith Cosentino: What’s the entry point for a place in the Keys?

Shane Jacks: It depends on which Key you’re in, but median, you can get a single wide trailer for about $150,000.00. Basically, you’re buying the lot. It’s a tiny lot.

Keith Cosentino: On a beach or just somewhere.

Shane Jacks: No, on a beach. They’re not a lot of beaches there.

Keith Cosentino: Is it all rocky?

Shane Jacks: It’s a lot of rocky stuff. There are some beaches there, but it’s mainly rocky. It’s not a beach paradise. The water’s just crazy blue. I don’t like sitting out on a beach and doing nothing. I wanna do something in the water. I wanna go snorkeling, go fishing, and I wanna sit on the dock and watch the sun set. I would rather sit on a dock than on the sand. That’s my personal preference.

Keith Cosentino: You like the way a beach looks better than the rocky shores. That’s one of the things that turned me off about the Caribbean. There are some beaches, but generally it’s craggy, rocky areas that you can’t even be comfortable in. You can’t even sit on them and have a good time, but the water looks nice.

Shane Jacks: I hate Myrtle Beach. Myrtle Beach is one of the biggest tourist beaches in America, right? You may not know that, Keith. You would be amazed at the people that come to Myrtle Beach here in South Carolina.

Keith Cosentino: There’s good fishing there too, right?

Shane Jacks: Not really. It’s decent. It’s not great.

Keith Cosentino: Better than at Chicken Lips.

Shane Jacks: Yes, the deep sea fishing is much better than in Arkansas, which is landlocked. They call it the Grand Strand. The reason it’s so touristy and people come is the beaches are very flat, very sandy, very deep and there’s a lot of places to lay out. That’s where I’ve been going my entire life, and I really don’t like it that much. It’s just too crowded for me. That’s the image I have in my mind of sandy beaches.

I like the beaches in California. They’re just nowhere near as crowded as Myrtle Beach. Not even close, when I’ve been. I haven’t been in the dead middle of summer, so there’s that. Venice Beach is about how deep that sand is from the edge of the sidewalk to the ocean. Myrtle Beach and the Grand Strand for 100-some odd miles straight is nothing but that, and it’s really flat. I guess I’ve been going to it my entire life three or four times a year when I was a kid. I don’t like it.

Keith Cosentino: Obviously, nobody asked Shane’s opinion on where they’re going.

Shane Jacks: I want crystal clear waters that are fertile.

Keith Cosentino: So, the Keys are where it’s at. $100,000.00 to $150,000.00 gets you into a shanty. What if you want a nice place?

Shane Jacks: If you want a two-bedroom condo that’s nice, you’re looking at $280,000.00 to $380,000.00. You’re not going to own any land, just that condo. If it’s on the water, then you’re looking at up to half a million dollars. I saw some houses on the water from $1.5 million up to $20 million. These aren’t huge. These are 2,500 square foot houses. There was one that was 3,500 square feet, but it had four more lots that were buildable, nice pool. It was $7 million.

Keith Cosentino: I could do half of that, I guess. So, how do you get from Key to Key? Are there bridges everywhere?

Shane Jacks: There’s a lot of land actually. You think there’s a ton of bridges and there are several, but they’re more connected by land. There are independent Keys, but a lot of them are connected by land.

Keith Cosentino: Are the cars all crappy like everywhere else in the Caribbean?

Shane Jacks: No, this is America. Dude, I saw a Lambo down there. These are pretty rich people for the most part that have their vacation homes down there. The people working there don’t. They’re not driving anything nice. They’re a part of the service industry for tourism, so they’re not super rich for the most part. It’s like Greenville.

Keith Cosentino: It was sounding pretty good before.

Shane Jacks: I’m talking about the cars.

Keith Cosentino: I can’t believe you lost all that money on the cruise. That stinks.

Shane Jacks: Yes, but I found somewhere I like.

Keith Cosentino: If you had had trip insurance, you would have gotten $100.00 back.

Shane Jacks: I had trip insurance. It doesn’t cover traffic jams.

Keith Cosentino: You needed to break one of your kids’ legs.

Shane Jacks: Exactly. We would have had to break everybody’s legs. They would have only paid for one person.

Keith Cosentino: We all broke our left legs. So, you stayed down there the whole time and just drove back?

Shane Jacks: No, we went to Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios also. We took two days. It was a fun time. It was good.

Keith Cosentino: Were the kids happy with all that?

Shane Jacks: Like I said, I’ve got really good kids. They were a little upset, but once I said we were going to the Keys and I showed them a picture of the resort, they were, “Cool, Dad.”

Keith Cosentino: You stayed at a resort down there.

Shane Jacks: Yes.

Keith Cosentino: I thought you were just at a hotel or something.

Shane Jacks: No, it’s a resort. They have duplexes on the waterfront and a big hotel. It’s a pretty neat place called Hawks Cay.

Keith Cosentino: What’s that cost?
Shane Jacks: We did some kayaking and the snorkeling was through the resort. It ended up costing us about $3,000.00 for four nights.

Keith Cosentino: That’s not too bad. It’s all-inclusive food and everything?

Shane Jacks: No.

Keith Cosentino: So, just for the room.

Shane Jacks: Yes.

Keith Cosentino: One room or two.

Shane Jacks: Two bedroom. Two story. It’s a nice place right on the water.

Keith Cosentino: Well, maybe one day I’ll go.

Shane Jacks: It’s nice. You won’t like it. You’re too highfalutin, man.

Keith Cosentino: When I picture going to some waterfront place, I’m wearing those super white little sneakers with almost no tread on the bottom. Then, I’ve got white shorts and a nice white shirt and the sweater over the shoulders with the sleeves hooked up in the front and I have a gold watch. That’s my attire.

Shane Jacks: That’s definitely you. There’s definitely plenty of those people there. Tons.

Keith Cosentino: I throw my head back and leave my mouth open extra long.

Shane Jacks: I have a pretty good story. My kids weren’t with me, but there were some kids right on the dock right outside. I was walking by myself. This young boy with blond hair floating out of his ball cap was coming through in this piece of crap boat, but he had a stereo system on it. He has some rap crap playing that’s saying “F you.” Every other word is an F bomb or a bitch. You know what I mean? I yelled at him. I said, “Hey.” He cut his boat off, and I said, “Dude, there’s kids out here, man. Show a little respect.” He said, “Okay.” He cuts it down.

Then, he couldn’t get the boat started back up. Before he gets it started back up, I said, “Thank you for that.” He said, “No problem.” He gets it cranked back up and get gets about 100 yards away from me. He turns it back up and starts dancing like, “I got you, sucker.” I’m, “What a punk.” Did he think I was gonna jump in and chase him in the water and now that he’s far enough away, I’m not gonna do that? Ridiculous.

Keith Cosentino: We’re still in America.

Shane Jacks: ‘Merica. So, how’s your life?

Keith Cosentino: It’s been kind of bananas. I’ve been working more than I wish I was, but getting a lot of stuff done. We are getting ready to hit a vacation here in just two days.

Shane Jacks: Good for you.

Keith Cosentino: Going wherever I want. Apparently, I want to go to Disneyland. Why are you laughing? I haven’t seen enough the first five times. We are gonna check it out again because my youngest daughter is just old enough to understand what she is going to. She’s 17 months, so she’ll kind of understand being there. My second youngest is almost four, so she’s kind of going for the first time. My other two are just old enough to act miserable in a place that’s costing me thousands of dollars a day.

Shane Jacks: I was about to say, that place is not cheap, man.

Keith Cosentino: No. We’ve had this conversation a couple different times. We talk about Disneyland a lot when we have kids. I was getting ready to pull the trigger on that guided tour again.

Shane Jacks: those are very reasonable.

Keith Cosentino: I even sent you the link. I actually wanna bring that up. That’s kind of the purpose of the show today. We stumbled on this, but it’s a fact. It’s the Disney Concierge Tour or Service. I can’t remember what the term is exactly, but for some reason I couldn’t find the [prices posted the last time we talked about this when I did a trip a year ago. This time I could find them. If I remember correctly, for each tour guide that comes with you, they need to be with you a minimum of six hours. You can keep them longer, and most people do, but it’s a minimum of six hours. It’s $360.00 per hour per cast members they would call them, or tour guide, as you would call them. So, $360.00 an hour for somebody whose skill set is “I know Disneyland pretty well.”

Shane Jacks: Disneyland is not huge.

Keith Cosentino: It’s not. There’s a lot of stuff to know. I’m not taking anything from these people who will be running around with you, if you buy this thing. Oftentimes, when you’re there, you’ll see people with two of them or three of them or four of them, and you know they’re not just there for the six hours. They’re kicking it with them all day, which is, oftentimes, a 12-hour day at Disneyland. You can double the one-person cost and quadruple that for some of these guys. That’s just your time at the park. That doesn’t include your tickets or food or anything. They just cart you around and show you some cool stuff and get you into some rides that maybe you would have had to wait longer. They don’t even guarantee that.

In fact, they say that will not happen, but I’ve seen it happen. The reason I’m talking about it is that a lot of us in the retail business talk often about believing how much you’re worth. Coming to a place in your mind where you are worth $800.00 an hour, $1,000.00 an hour, even $300.00, $400.00 or $500.00. Everybody has their own number that they either are stuck at or are trying to get themselves to in their mind. A lot of guys have trouble with that, Shane. A lot of them can’t come to the place where they feel like their PDR skills are worth $500.00 an hour.

Shane Jacks: For sure.

Keith Cosentino: These guys carting you around Disneyland are getting –

Shane Jacks: With a very slim skill set. I’m gonna defend that a little bit. They’re not getting it.

Keith Cosentino: They’re not, but you’re paying it.

Shane Jacks: Right.

Keith Cosentino: That’s an interesting point you bring up because when we are charging that, we’re not getting it either.

Shane Jacks: Correct. I was actually going to bring that up.

Keith Cosentino: If you’re running a real business, you don’t just take the $500.00 and stuff it in your pocket and go buy a bunch of Twizzlers. You gotta pay some bills, man.

Shane Jacks: And grow. There’s more to just taking money.

Keith Cosentino: There sure is. There really is. You gotta factor that in. If you’re running a complete business and you’re paying for everything and you’ve got people working for you and you’ve got administration you’ve gotta pay for, you need $100.00 an hour just to keep the boat afloat. Forget about making anybody any money. I know that seems like a lot to a lot of you guys, but you’d be surprised at how expensive it is to run a business legitimately. A lot of us are running them in half in and half out. You have one foot in the legitimate circle and one foot out basically running a garage sale. There’s so many of you guys out there with no or improper insurance.

I’ve seen them on Facebook, and we’ve talked to some because we had that episode a while back with Austin Bowden who’s taken it upon himself to learn this industry and he knows what insurance you need and don’t need and what the limits should be. We happen to be friends, and he tells me all the time about guys calling him and they’ve got some policy they’re paying $400.00 for, but they’re paying for nothing. They’re not insured for any conditions under which they’d be working. They just think they are because they don’t ask enough questions. They figure, “If I’m paying for something, I’ve got insurance,” and that’s it.

The fact of the matter is you’ll almost never use it. When this dude arcs a battery and burns down a car and half a garage, he’s gonna find out who had the right amount of insurance and who didn’t real fast. Stuff like that adds up. That guy doesn’t wanna spend $2,000.00 a year. He wants to spend $400.00. That little $2,000.00 a year and professional shirts and all that stuff you don’t think is expensive all adds up.

Shane Jacks: Another completely unrelated, Keith, but life insurance. What’s that?

Keith Cosentino: Assuming you have a family, it’s huge.

Shane Jacks: If you don’t have a family, and you’re by yourself, it’s really inconsequential. I constantly see where someone has died or is terminal and you just wonder what’s gonna happen at the end. That stuff’s not cheap. It’s not outrageously expensive, but if you’re gonna have at least ten times your annual salary, which is what is recommended, then for most of you, that’s gonna be well over $1 million. It should be anyway. It could be closer to $3 or $4 or $5 million worth of insurance, and that’s gonna cost you a few hundred a month, $400.00 or $500.00, depending on how old you are. That’s not cheap. Health insurance. It’s crazy for the four of us. I can only imagine what yours is, Keith.

Keith Cosentino: If I could put that money in the bank and start hiring Native Americans to dance around and try to heal us, I’d be ahead.

Shane Jacks: In the past couple years, I’ve averaged over $20,000.00 in a year in health costs.

Keith Cosentino: We’re over that by probably 25 or 30 percent.

Shane Jacks: It’s absolutely crazy.

Keith Cosentino: And the coverage we’re buying isn’t all that great. I would have thought, if I’m spending this kind of money, I would walk into the place and they’d be, “Mr. Cosentino, please, we’re gonna bring three doctors out and we’re gonna carry you up to a room and give you some refreshments and find out what’s wring with you.” I’m still paying $30.00 copays and I wait in line and I gotta go see three different doctors. I literally had one guy tell me the other day that I have gas when I’m dealing with the stomach pain that I have. “I don’t have gas, brother.”

I wish I had a jersey on my back and I played for a sports team because I’d have nine doctors out there all fretting over what’s wrong with me and doing every kind of scan available to find out what was going wrong. Apparently, it takes a few more $100,000.00 a year in medical costs to get the coverage that I think I should have. Obama coverage. Not Obama plan, but Obama personal coverage.

Shane Jacks: You’ll never have that, cuz.

Keith Cosentino: That’s the truth. So, when you’re talking about what you’re worth, you gotta consider these Disneyland guys. $360.00 an hour and they’re booked all day every day by people with the money. There’s a lot of people out there that don’t have the money. They’re not the customers for that service. Whatever your number is, I want you to try to find a way to convince yourself that you’re worth it because it’s gonna bleed over into your estimates. You’re gonna start getting those numbers up where they should be and start making the money you could or should be making.

Shane and I both regularly do jobs that average out per hour at $500.00, $600.00, $700.00, $800.00 an hour. We’re able to do it because we’ve come to a place that we feel like we’re ready to accept that wage. I call it a wage. Unfortunately, that’s what it is. We’re still working, doing a trade in a time. That’s a wage. That’s a precursor to the actual topic today, which Shane’s gonna spearhead, but we’re bringing up price anchoring again, aren’t we, Shane?

Shane Jacks: Yes. I’m gonna act like Keith in that I failed to mention this in the previous podcast that I did by myself on price anchoring because I wanted to bring it up with you. Truth be told, I just did not connect the two, and you brought it up the other day, and it was a eureka moment. I was, “Holy crap. How did I miss that on the price anchoring show we did?”

Keith Cosentino: In case somebody missed the first show, why don’t you give us a refresher? What is price anchoring?

Shane Jacks: Price anchoring can be used in a variety of ways, but basically it’s this. Whenever you have a product, that price is anchored in the consumer’s mind by some outside force. A lot of times, that is us. A lot of times, it is something they have heard before or something they have seen before or work they have had done before. Automatically in their brains, they think, “That’s what it’s supposed to be.” Does that make sense? Is that clear enough?

Keith Cosentino: I think so. So, we’re saying, if it’s something, say, you’ve bought over and over again, like a bottle of water, you’re gonna be anchored by your experience. The bottle of water should be somewhere between $1.00 and $3.00.

Shane Jacks: Then, when you go to a hotel and there’s a bottle of Voss there, and you look at the little ticket that’s on there that says, “You will be charged $9.50 for this bottle of water,” you immediately do what?

Keith Cosentino: You freak out.

Shane Jacks: You freak the flip out. You’ve been anchored with that $1.50 to $3.00 for the past ten to 15 years that bottled water has been in prominence. Before that, 25 or 30 years ago, had you said a bottle of water was gonna be $1.50, that would have been absolutely absurd because the price that was anchored in your mind was, “All the freaking water I want out of the tap for $10.00 a month.” Honestly, that’s what was anchored in your mind before that. Slowly, with commercialization of water and putting it in a plastic bottle, that anchor has developed itself to be $1.50 or $3.00. Things can change. Those anchors can change, as with bottled water. That was a really good example, Keith, because you go back 30 years and tell somebody they’re gonna pay $1.50 for 16 ounces of water, my dad would have slit your throat.

Keith Cosentino: Just on principle.

Shane Jacks: Yes, just on principle. Correct. You can affect people’s emotions with those prices too. One of the things we talked about in that episode were these cakes of deception. Two cakes, different shapes, but they were baked in the same oven at the same time made with the same ingredients. One of them was a $45.00 cake and one of them was a $15.00 cake supposedly. People tasted them and swore up and down the $45.00 cake was better than the $15.00 cake because the people that were doing the trick on them had anchored in their minds the quality of the product is based upon price.

Keith Cosentino: Right. They had presented the same exact cakes in different shapes and said, “I’d like you to try them both. This one’s $15.00. This one’s $45.00. Tell me which one you like better.”

Shane Jacks: Without exception, at least on the show, everyone said, “This cake is much better.” Even after they were told the cakes were baked in the same oven with the same ingredients at the same time, people refused to believe it. “No, that cake was better.”

Keith Cosentino: More frosting, not enough frosting, too much frosting. They made up all different reasons. No two reasons were the same, but they all convinced themselves the more expensive cake was better.

Shane Jacks: In a nutshell, anchoring is the consumer’s mind on the quality of a product based on the price or anchoring the price of a product or a service based on a previous transaction they had or based on something that you give them. We can use price anchoring in our businesses in so many different ways. One effective way is using body shop pricing.

Keith Cosentino: I’d say that’s the main one when we’re talking about retail work. Sometimes even wholesale work for bigger dents. Instead of anchoring yourself at a smaller number, “Well, our normal price is $100.00 to do the whole car, but this is bigger,” you say, “The body shop would be about $900.00 to do this. Here’s what we can do.” You’re anchoring off that bigger number.
Shane Jacks: The most effective way to anchor off that bigger number is not just your price. “This at the body shop would be about $900.00, but we can get this out for you about $625.00. No. 2, you’re gonna save your factory paints.” You start anchoring the quality side of it also. So, you’re doing everything. You’re giving them a better quality product for cheaper. That’s typically reversed when we see the cakes of deception we were speaking of a few minutes ago. It’s reversed from what you’re typically used to, but you can explain that away and you’re justified in doing so by telling them, “This is a different process. It’s fairly new.” I know some people are gonna give me a hard time about this, Keith, but I use it quite a bit and whether I believe it or not, it’s more of an art.

Keith Cosentino: I say that all the time.

Shane Jacks: I know, but people will argue with you about it. I see their point, but honestly, I do some artwork myself also, and I can see the correlation. There is some artistry in this. I’m not gonna say we are artists, but this is some artistry involved.

Keith Cosentino: There’s a lot. I won’t argue with that at all.

Shane Jacks: Especially when you get up to the more complex stuff.

Keith Cosentino: I tell the customers, “The only way someone determines this repair is done is when the technician says, ‘It looks pretty.’” That’s it. You better know who’s on the other end of that tool because if some guy decided it’s done and you don’t agree, it’s still done.

Shane Jacks: Very true.

Keith Cosentino: So, that’s a refresher on what anchoring is. Let’s talk about this new angle.

Shane Jacks: Why don’t you bring it up, Keith, since you’re the one that brought it up to me? Honestly, what we wanna talk about is one of the biggest anchors in the PDR industry today. Everybody’s thinking, “He’s gonna use the body shop. He’s gonna use something positive.” It’s in a negative aspect, honestly, towards our profession.

Keith Cosentino: Sure is.

Shane Jacks: What is it, Keith?

Keith Cosentino: The hail matrix.

Shane Jacks: Greatest price anchor ever in this industry.

Keith Cosentino: The insurance companies have been using their magic techniques on you and me and everybody else for umpteen years. We have fallen right in line. It’s a testament to how effective price anchoring is because they spoke first. They talked about the price, and they put it down on paper, and now we’re all playing off that number. We’re all branching off of that. We even had a whole show about how to use the matrix effectively and how to flip it on the insurance company. It’s like a big joke. They are now setting the base number and we’re frantically working around it trying to make it work for us.

Shane Jacks: Ironically, Keith, what gave me the idea for the price anchoring show in the first place was an insurance company commercial. I will have to look it up again, but I’m 99 percent certain is was. A guy was in a store and he was talking about anchoring. It wasn’t a commercial. It was more like a YouTube infomercial, but at the end, it was sponsored by someone. I’m not gonna guess. I’m gonna look it up.

Keith Cosentino: Every time this matrix comes up, where does it come from? The insurance companies got together and said, “We once had work done this cheap. Let’s go even cheaper and let’s say that’s all we’ll pay. We’ll just start them right there. Some guys are gonna say yes. The other guys, we can just use this sheet here we made up to argue about it.” It’s just numbers that they made up. There are categories of a number of dents, which is the most ludicrous idea ever. I don’t even know the breakdown because I don’t use those things, but one to five dents. What’s at the top? 75 to 100 or something like that, Shane?

Shane Jacks: What’s at the beginning?

Keith Cosentino: No, the bottom is one to five.

Shane Jacks: It depends on the company. Some of them are 150 to 200.

Keith Cosentino: So, at the top of the spectrum, there’s at least a 25 or 50 dent swing in that category, right?

Shane Jacks: Yes.

Keith Cosentino: Then, at the bottom, one to 15 is a category. How come 15 or 25 dents is enough to be a whole category on the bottom, but at the top, they don’t even matter anymore? It’s nonsense. You still have to fix every single one of them. I could see if you’re painting something. You’re just gonna paint over everything, but you have to fix every single one of those dents. So, how can they have some value on the bottom of the scale and no value at the top? It doesn’t make any sense at all. Except if you were just using it to say, “You have no idea what you’re doing. You’ve never seen a car or a dent. We need you to do some estimates. Just use this thing. It’ll get you close at least.” Go ahead.

Shane Jacks: We’ve fallen for it because some of the big companies have gone in with the insurance companies and said, “We can do it for this.” That’s the argument that’s gonna come out against us, Keith, against you in this whole thing. When you said they come up with it, honestly, some of the bigger companies went in with these insurance companies and said, “We can do it for this.” It doesn’t change the fact that they are price anchoring, whether it be the insurance companies or the insurance companies along with some of the bigger dent companies. We’ve allowed it to happen. We’ve basically said, “Our hamburger is the same quality as McDonalds over there, the big dent company, so we’re gonna fall in line with them because they’re charging 59 cents for their hamburgers. Mine are worth no more than 59 cents also.”

Keith Cosentino: Unless they’re double patty. Then, I can get them 25 percent more.

Shane Jacks: Double patty. I see what you did there.

Keith Cosentino: It’s really the craziest thing I could think of. I can’t believe we didn’t notice it sooner. I believe you should use your own pricing structure when you’re trying to price something, hail damage or otherwise. I know you guys who chase hail full-time, it’s a different story than my life and the way I run my business. I’m not trying to tell you it’s the same. I am trying to tell you that letting someone else dictate the prices that you charge at your company is bonkers. Unless you’re selling government contracts, you can charge whatever you want. It’s up to you to find a way to make that happen. You will recognize that they’re using a pricing tactic on you by saying, “This is what we’ll pay. This is where we’re gonna start.” What they’ll pay, if there’s no PDR guy there is conventional. That isn’t on the matrix.

Shane Jacks: Precisely. Nope.

Keith Cosentino: That’s what they’ll pay. If there’s nobody in Chicken Lips to push those dents, that car’s still getting fixed. They don’t bring that matrix to the body shop and say, “This is as cheap as we’ve had it done, so this is what you’re gonna have to pay.” They really should be saying that. “For every hail repair, this is the price. I don’t care how it’s fixed. But there’s some guys with metal sticks and glue who will fix it for this. You either fix it for this or don’t fix it.” They don’t say that though, do they?

Shane Jacks: No, they do not. They will try to tell dent guys that the other guys with metal sticks can fix it for this much, but they’re not gonna tell the body guys that. We let it happen to us.

Keith Cosentino: If it really was all they would pay, then it really would be all they would pay. Then, it might be a different story that Shane and I would be telling right now. It isn’t all they’ll pay. It’s all they’ll pay for this technique, which is better. I had a car the other day that came in from out of town with hail on it, and it was a complete repaint, except for one panel on the deck lid. It was a decent repaint for being an entire car. Some panels looked factory, and I saw a few flat spots, and I started looking closer. They taped off the front of the roof, and it was starting to peel just an eighth of an inch at the molding. Most people wouldn’t notice it, but I see it.

This car’s junk. It’s garbage now. The paint looks different. I ended up pulling paint off of it because you could see the spot I pulled was almost not sanded at all. It had one pass form a Brillo pad. It wasn’t prepped right, and it was junk. A repainted car was so crappy. It was amazing. Our repair is so much better. It’s not even in the same category and to say that you would pay less for it is bonkers, absolutely bonkers.

On a different car a while back, I had an estimate for this hail rig, another out-of-town car, and I said, “Here’s my price. Body shop said that’s fine. I show up the next day to start. Everything’s torn apart, and I’m just getting ready to put a tool on it, and the adjuster’s supervisor shows up. He was nice, but cautious about how he spoke and what he said. The long and short of the conversation was, he said, “Your estimate’s about $5,700.00 and some change. I’m just wondering where you’re coming up with those numbers.” “Well, I happened to use the PDR estimate app to generate those numbers.” I like playing good cop/bad cop with the pricing strategy. “Where did you get the numbers?”
Instead of saying, “I made them up because that’s what I think it takes,” I said, “We use this application. It’s available to you or anybody else who wants to purchase it. It calculates all the factors about the car, the number of dents, the depth, etc., and it calculates a price that it should cost to repair.” He said, “Again, I’m not trying to say anything about you personally. I’m sure you’re a great company and a great technician, but if you finish this in eight or even ten hours, that’s $570.00 an hour. It seems excessive, and I’m trying to understand where you come up with the figure.”

I said, “First of all, there’s no way I can guarantee I’m gonna finish it in eight or ten hours. I’m gonna try. I had one the other day that I thought would take me one day. It took me three days. I don’t know when I’m gonna be finished with it.” It was a Friday. .He said, “How about this then? What if we say, if you finish it today, then we can pay you $4,000.00? If it goes to Monday, then we can pay you the additional $1,700.00.”

Shane Jacks: That is funny.

Keith Cosentino: Isn’t it funny? I was really nervous. I’m usually pretty good at negotiations, but I had so much invested in this particular transaction. I was there a day before doing an estimate and it had to get approved. I had to come back. All my tools were all set up. The car’s all split apart. Now is the time when I’m gonna start making some money on this thing. I’ve been spending time just setting it up. I was getting nervous for this transaction, but I said, “Well, the short answer is no. I won’t do that. I work really hard to repair these cars in a timely manner. To get this car out on time to help the body shop and the customer and ultimately help you and keep him out of rental for any more time than they need to be, I don’t want to de-incentivize myself to drag my feet, check the Internet 42 times today and come back on Monday and actually finish the car. So, I am not gonna do that for you.”

I did say, Shane, “However, I’m here to help you. I wanna help get the car fixed and get it out. I’d be happy to work with you a little bit, if the numbers look a little bit better to the higher-ups for you. I’m willing to do the repair for five percent cheaper than what I’ve estimate it for.” I know a lot of guys would balk at that and say, “You’re just giving up money,” but this guy was the area supervisor. He made a special trip to be there before I was there, so he could justify this pricing that I put on this car, which, of course, was cheaper than a conventional repair.

What I want is this guy on my side. I wanna work with him and make him happy and five percent on this deal is not really gonna change my world. It’s just under a few hundred bucks. It was $5,700.00. Ten percent of that is $570.00, so it’s half of that. I had priced it really well, and I had room in the car to do it. I had told the body shop manager the same thing prior. “This is my quote. If you guys are close and you’re having trouble, let me know, and we can move some numbers around and make it happen.”

I had taken a tip from a guy on Facebook. I can’t remember who he was, so sorry if it was you, and I didn’t give you credit. But the guy started applying$125.00 line items to adhesives and solvents for a hail repair car. I’d started applying that, so I figure right off the top of the bat, I got $125.00 more than I normally would have. So, I’m $125.00 up. I’m gonna give back $275.00 or whatever. I’m okay with that. Now, I really wanna finish it in one day. So, I gave him the five percent. He was happy. I was happy. I did the car that day. I finished it, and it was good, and we never needed to have another back and forth.

It’s an interesting little story about their numbers and where they come up with them. When you’re trying to work with these adjusters, I’ve found that it’s quite easy, if you’re actually trying to work with them, like you’ve talked about Shane. If you wanna fight them, they don’t mind fighting with you.

Shane Jacks: I have a pretty good example close to what you’re saying there, Keith. Remember when I shared with everybody here –

Keith Cosentino: Hang on. Before you tell me that. You’re the hail guy. Am I on the wrong track giving up five percent?

Shane Jacks: No. That’s actually where my story is going. I had a gentleman a while back from Geico come up. He worked at a big body shop in the area. He said, “We have guys that will wipe that roof for $550.00.” I said, “Cool. I’m gonna call the customer and let them know.” I’m being a lot more stern with it right here just for the sake of time. “I’m gonna call the customer and let her make the decision.” This was a retail customer’s car that brought it straight to me. “I’m gonna let her make the decision about what she wants to be done. If she wants the roof painted or if she wants to do PDR. I’m gonna be completely forthright with her. I’m gonna let her have her decision. I’m gonna tell her the pros and cons of each situation. We’ll probably see you back here tomorrow.”
I call the customer. I told her, “It’s totally up to you. If you want your roof painted, we’ll paint your roof. They’ll put Bondo in it. Or you can have me do it.” She said, “Which would you do? You’re being honest with me. It doesn’t sound like he really wants to be honest with me.” I said, “If it were me, I would wanna do PDR to save my factory paint, but I’m leaving that totally up to you.” She said, “I wanna do what you would do because I trust you.”

No. 1, I’ve created trust with the customer there because I was completely open. I told her she could do whatever she wanted to do with her car. Then, I called the adjuster back. He told me, “$550.00 is all my system will allow me to go on this.” I didn’t argue with him. I didn’t say, “You’re full of crap,” and he was. I didn’t tell him I knew the system would go higher than $550.00. I just told him that I’d tell the customer and let them decide. So, he comes back the next day. You know what he tells me? He says, “I figured out how to manipulate the system. I got with my superior and he told me how to manipulate the system. We’re gonna give you what you want.”

Guess what? The guy had to come back out for another retail customer’s car. He was really cool when he walked in. He was actually a little bit nervous. I could tell he was nervous to deal with me. He was out in his car for an hour and a half. He came back in and scratched his head. He’s showing all these signs of being a little bit nervous. He says, “Shane, I got you within $75.00.” I guess he’s expecting me to blow back at him for that $75.00. I said, “Dude, we’re cool. I could sit here and argue about it, but for me and you both, it just isn’t worth it.” He said, “Okay, cool.”

I will never have another problem with that adjuster. I can guarantee it. He may come up short $50.00, but I will be willing to bet, and I will bring it up again if I have him in there again, that he will over me on some of these estimates that are coming up. He will give me more than what I ask. I’ve had it happen before. It may only be $25.00 on a panel, but he’ll say, “I saw a couple more than you did and it threw it up into this category. We’re gonna give you $75.00 more.” I’ve had that happen more times than not whenever I’ve decided not to be a total jerk to these adjusters. To answer your question, no, I don’t think you’re on the wrong track, Keith. People will argue with you about it, but my experience is, if you’re not a total prick to them, it will pay you back in the long run.
Keith Cosentino: Ultimately, whatever system you use to generate the pricing, whether it’s your brain, your balloon know matrix or program, you’re generating the numbers that you want. It’s your number and you can manipulate them all. If you think you’re gonna have to come down, it’s not that hard to put them up real high to start and have some room to wiggle down to something that you’re happy with. There’s nothing wrong with that. If it’s a situation that you know where you’re probably gonna get negotiated with, throw them on up there. Get them high and look like the hero, like the guy who’s really gonna work something out when you come back down a little bit.

My numbers were way higher than most guys would have been on that car. For a guy like you, that was probably a two or three hour car. I’m a lot slower on this kind of stuff because I don’t have the experience doing it. They’re hard to do, if you don’t have all the lighting and all the tools and a system on how you’re gonna attack the car. Which panels are you gonna do first? It all makes a difference. You lose five minutes here, ten minutes there, and 20 minutes there, it adds up fast.

Shane Jacks: It’s a muscle memory thing too, man. I honestly believe that. You’re working on smashes all day long. Your body is used to doing that. When I do that all winter long and it’s the first storm of the year, it takes me several cars to get back into the swing of it. It’s just my body getting used to working in that manner, other than doing caved-in, crushed doors. It’s definitely a different ball game, for sure. And somebody who can do both is few and far between.

Keith Cosentino: Go ahead and pat yourself on the back a little bit there.

Shane Jacks: Why not? I didn’t say I did both well.

Keith Cosentino: You know what? I had to run a report the other day because it was the end of the month for my guys. You know how easy that was for me? Five seconds.

Shane Jacks: It was easy. You know why?

Keith Cosentino: I was using ReconPro. Hopped right into their back office, as they call it, which is the hub for the administrator of the system. You get online, log into their system, and I can see everything I need to see at the push of a button. I can tell it what date ranges I wanna look at. I wanna know where that money’s coming from, what invoice specifically or group of invoices or what type of work, like retail, body shop or wholesale, where’s all that money coming from. All that information is there through ReconPro. It makes me a more effective owner and manager of my company. I can determine if we’re spending too much time on a given account for the revenue or if my guys are too heavy in wholesale and we need to push more retail in a certain geographic area. All that information is there, if you take the time to set it up properly and monitor it.

I would not be where I am today without that software, ReconPro. I can’t imagine that we used to do this business on paper before. It’s just bananas to me. Like we were talking about earlier, Shane, about running a real company or running a half company, when we were on paper, we were still running a real company. There’s a lot of guys I’ve talked to around the country, and around the world, who are running what you would think are really legitimate companies, but their accounting is almost non-existent.

They have paper invoices and at the end of the month, they are just going through this stack of paper and determining what everyone owes them and sending handwritten statements out to everybody. I hate to remind you of it, but remember that check that you got that stayed stuck in your glovebox or your change drawer that never got deposited.

Shane Jacks: Yes. Thanks for making my week even brighter.

Keith Cosentino: Sorry, Shane, but that’s the paper system. Papers get lost and you lose money. You guys that are on paper, what would happen if somebody stole your clipboard?

Shane Jacks: You’d have no idea what anybody owed you.

Keith Cosentino: Clueless. You’d have a basic idea about where you did work. You and I both know that if you do a lot of wholesale, and you don’t turn in a bill to these clowns in a timely manner, they are happy to pretend it never existed. They’ll even argue with you, if they sell the car and you send the bill later, which is a topic for another show. The paper system is broken, fellows. I am so much safer, and I am accounting for all the money that’s owed to me electronically with this system.

It probably pays for itself ten times over during the course of a year just by not losing an invoice here or there. If you lose one $200.00 or $300.00 invoice and you forget to bill somebody, they’re not gonna come knocking down your door and say, “You never billed us for the $300.00.” Some will, but most won’t. I can’t endorse it enough. ReconPro. It’s AutoMobiletechnologies.com. ReconPro is the product.

They make a lot of other products, so it’s not just a little tiny company with a technician who also makes software. It’s a bunch of nerds working on software all the time. Those are the guys. Check them out. Talk to them a little bit more about your situation and see what it takes to get yourself on board. You will thank me later, when your business is real and accountable and it’s there online for everybody to see when you want them to see it. Man, Shane, we got through an hour pretty quick there, didn’t we?

Shane Jacks: Yes, we did.

Keith Cosentino: Tell me what’s going on with the Edge Jack tools. I’ve seen a lot of chatter about them lately. I’ve been using them in some weird situations and have been real happy. What’s going on? Are they everywhere? Are you changing them? What’s going on?

Shane Jacks: They are everywhere. They are beginning to get in the hands of pretty much all the tool companies pout there. There are a few that still aren’t on board, of course. You can get them at PDR Outlet, Dentcraft, TDN Tools, BlendingHammerPDR.com, of course. They are selling well through my site. They’re changing things. They are changing the ways guys fix the edges of doors and hoods.

Pretty much every week somebody is sending me something, “Did you know you could use it here?” A tech was fixing a range hood it looked like. He said, “I never could have fixed it without the Edge Jack.” I definitely wouldn’t think of using it that way because I don’t fix range hoods, but he got a ton of money out of it. It was an expensive range hood. He repaired it and got his money out of it. He was very happy with that. The thing just works.

Keith Cosentino: Give me his number. I’ll send all my appliance dents to this dude, whoever it is.

Shane Jacks: I had somebody from your area or about an hour north of you, Keith, who wanted to send a range hood all the way out here from California for me to repair it. I told him about you. I said, “Why don’t you get somebody there to do it?” He really didn’t have an answer for me. He called me two or three times. “No, it’s not worth it to me. Find somebody in your area, like Keith Cosentino.”

Keith Cosentino: He would have gotten the brick wall from me, if he called, because I’m not into that stuff. It makes me so happy. I can’t say that. I like to help customers of all types. It doesn’t make me happy to just say no to them, but it makes me happy knowing how much money I’m saving by not dorking around with these stupid repairs. Garage doors, range hoods, and all that stuff. Unless the range hood is $45,000.00 and it’s leased and it’s gotta be turned in next month, I don’t need to work on it. It doesn’t have the value. Even if it’s $5,000.00. What’s a $5,000.00 car? How many dents are you gonna do on that thing? Not enough.

Shane Jacks: None. But they’re selling well. The hammers are selling well. So, head on over to BlendingHammerPDR.com and get those. It’s the only blending hammer out there, I believe, that I know of. You’re not gonna break that thing. I knocked down a concrete wall the other day with it just for giggles. So, you’re not gonna break the handle on that thing. I can try to tell you how well the Edge Jack works, but until you get one in your hands and try and see how strong it is and how little pressure you have to put on your mini lifter handle to make it push through that double panel and push the dents out and how much power that thing has, you’re just not gonna believe it. I didn’t believe it until I tried it myself. I don’t think you believed it until you saw it yourself, Keith.

Keith Cosentino: No.

Shane Jacks: You thought, “I see how it would work.” Everybody who sends me a message about it personally asking, “What should I know about this thing?” My one thing is, be careful on your first try. That’s all I can tell you.

Keith Cosentino: Respect the power.

Shane Jacks: Yes. Respect the power. It is coming, in droves. Another thing that needs to happen is I need to make some new tips for mine, so I can experiment with different shaped tips. We’re slowing down on all the hell that we’ve had finally. I’m eager to see some of these tips that are gonna go in this thing from you guys. If you have some that you think are cool, and you think guys could profit off of or they could use and I could profit off of, tell me what that is. I’ll get them manufactured and sell your idea back to you. I am shameless, aren’t I?

Keith Cosentino: You gotta be. I also wanna talk a little bit about Tab Weld because I’ve been using it, of course, every day. I’ve seen a couple people on Facebook post that they can’t get it to stick. It’s almost like they’re living in another universe. I’m using this stuff just the other day. It’s tiny tabs, and I’m just blowing up this metal and getting these huge pulls out of it. I’m overpulling a lot of stuff still on accident because I’m thinking, “That’s a tiny tab. It’s not gonna bite that hard.” Pow. I get this huge pull out of it.

I just stopped and put my hand on my forehead. “Why is this not working for some guys? How can this work so well for me and 99 other guys and for one guy it doesn’t work? He tells me it doesn’t stick. It’s obvious that it sticks. Not only does it stick, but it sticks better than anything else that I’ve ever used. So, how can these guys have issues with it?” I’ve taken time to make phone calls with guys over the past couple of years since I’ve gotten into the tab business and troubleshoot their glue pulling and see why a particular tab doesn’t stick. That was the other question I used to get. “I can’t get your tabs to stick.”

I’ve spent time talking to the guys, and it almost always comes down to one of a couple small things. When you’re glue pulling, it’s gotta be in a temperature that’s comfortable. It’s gotta be in room temperature to get optimum pulls. Yes, you can pull in the heat and you can make it work. If you want the best pull, it’s gonna between 70 and 82 degrees. Any hotter than that and you’re gonna start losing performance, even for the hot weather glues. It’s hot melt glue, fellows. It melts when it gets hot, so it can’t be too hot or it doesn’t work. So, you gotta be in a good temperature range. I’m not saying you can’t use it if it’s hot, but if you want it to really pull, you gotta be in that room temperature range. That goes with any glue, hot, cold, whatever. None of it works, if it’s freezing or boiling hot.

You gotta prep the surface right. You gotta make sure there’s no wax on that thing. Use regular rubbing alcohol, which is what I tend to use, or you wanna use window cleaner, which I’ll use in a pinch sometimes, anything to clean the wax off that car. You can use denatured alcohol. It’s a little more aggressive, and you can use lacquer thinner. If you really wanna strip that thing fast without a bunch of monkeying around, you can use lacquer thinner. Not my first choice because it’s a little more abrasive on my hands, my fingers and the paint itself.
When nothing else is working, hit it with a little bit of lacquer thinner and one quick wipe. Make sure it’s dry. Make sure the glue’s nice and hot and put it directly on the tab and try to put the glue on the tab close to the dent. You don’t want to walk 25 feet. It’s in a state of cooling the minute it leaves the gun. So, you wanna get it on the tab and get it on the dent as quickly as possible. Then, as far as pulling times, with Tab Weld and Smooth Series time, Shane, that’s sometimes two or three seconds, right?

Shane Jacks: Yes.

Keith Cosentino: It’s not a lot of set-up time.

Shane Jacks: No.

Keith Cosentino: It’s one way I’m able to make a lot of money with that product because I’m not spending any time just staring at glue tabs waiting for them to dry. Place it. Place a little bit of pressure.

Shane Jacks: I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Keith Cosentino: No, what were you gonna say?

Shane Jacks: I was gonna say, the set-up time is very small, but the window is larger. Most of the glues that set-up really quickly, the window to pull is very short also. Does that make sense?

Keith Cosentino: Sometimes it can be short with the Smooth Series Tabs. If the temperatures are not ideal, the window can be small. There’s not a lot of glue there. It’s very thin. If you place it the way I want you to place it with a lot of pressure and squeezing all the glue out, there’s a very thin layer of glue. You don’t use a lot of glue. So, if the car is hotter or colder than you wish it was, it’s gonna bring that pull out of its optimal range really quick. If everything’s room temperature, the window’s huge.

Obviously, in the real world, we’re very seldom in perfect room temperature, unless you’re working on some guy’s collection in an air-conditioned garage. Most of the time, it’s crappy outside and too hot or too cold, so you gotta work around it. Once it’s on, it doesn’t really matter what you pull it with. Shane’s a slide hammer guy. I’m a mini lifter guy. Neither of us are 100 percent because the conditions are different sometimes, but we both get stupid pulls out of that glue and out of the Smooth Series Tabs. That’s it, fellows. It’s pretty simple.
Make sure the tabs are not ice cold as well or boiling hot. It’s gonna make a different too, if they’re boiling hot. The glue never quite sets up. If it’s cold, it sets up too fast the minute you touch the tab, and the tab will come right off. What I believe is common sense, and it’s kind of insulting to say because not everybody is a tab nerd and a glue nerd like I am, so it’s not common sense. Relatively common, but it’s not that common. If you go through all those steps, you’re almost guarantees to have a great pull and snap up the center of that sharp little dent that’s been fooling with you.

Everybody can put any kind of tab on a big soft dent and yank some metal around. It doesn’t take special tabs to do that, but getting the pit up out of a tiny dent, that’s when you need everything to be perfect.

Shane Jacks: That’s where those tabs and glue shine.

Keith Cosentino: They are on the money. So, BlackPlaguePDR.com is my site, if you wanna go check them out. We’ve got a little video there, if you haven’t seen it. It’s eye-opening to see what happens underneath when you place a Smooth Series Tab and a Textured Dome Tab. You can see what’s going on with the glue underneath if you check that video out. I’ll give you a little insight as to why they work so well.

If you wanna buy them anywhere else, they’re in a lot of places. They’re in most of the big tool companies, Dentcraft, Ultra, PDR Gear, PDR Outlet. I’m sure I’m forgetting some other companies that have them. Anson has them. They’re basically anywhere you’d wanna be. You Australian guys can find them at Dent Tool Warehouse. They carry our stuff out there in Australia, so you don’t have to wait so long for this stuff to come on a boat. I feel bad for the Australiana and European guys who wanna buy tools. It sucks for you guys. It’s not easy.

Shane Jacks: No, it is not. I feel bad. I don’t wanna ship it over there because guys get mad at you because it takes forever, unless you’re paying $60.00 for shipping.

Keith Cosentino: It takes forever and it’s expensive. Even the cheap stuff is expensive. You think you’re ripping them off, but the truth of the matter is, I lose money on everything I shop over there because I’m trying to do it competitively, and it’s still expensive.

Shane Jacks: Speaking of tabs, we haven’t really talked a lot about the LAKA Tabs, Keith.

Keith Cosentino: No, we sure haven’t.

Shane Jacks: I use those things quite a bit. They’re a couple of them I use more than any of the others. I do use them all. Well, not all of them. That’s a lie.

Keith Cosentino: Are you cheating on my Smooth Series?

Shane Jacks: Every now and then. There are other tabs out there that work in certain situations, but they’re not ideal. Ninety nine percent of the time, I’m a Smooth Tab guy, but there are other times I need something a little bit different. I like the black square one that’s got the funky wing shape.

Keith Cosentino: That has a weird bend to it.

Shane Jacks: That thing hangs on like mad. The blue and red bigger crease tabs won’t pull a tight center like your Smooth Series Tabs do. They’ll pull more of a broad area, which is not ideal most of the time on a crease, but it will pull up some bigger areas pretty good. It will pull up some more board areas, if that makes sense. I use those every now and then. Those are some really good tabs.

Keith Cosentino: Those are black now, by the way. Same tab, but they’re black.

Shane Jacks: They are? Okay. Well, I still have the red, blue and yellow, I believe. I use the red and the blue more.

Keith Cosentino: They had them in all different colors, and it was very confusing as to which ones they were. You may or may not know that I’m selling LAKA tabs on a separate site called LAKAToolsUSA. The only reason I’m selling them, because they are a direct competitor to mine, is that they’re very good. They’re awesome tabs, and in some situations, I like them better than mine. In some situations, I like mine better than theirs. It depends on your style and what the damage is. It ultimately comes down to the damage.

Their tabs are more stout and thicker on the bottoms. Sometimes that’s beneficial and sometimes that’s not. But I like having options. When I used these tabs and figured they’re as good as mine in some situations, I wanted to carry them as well to give guys as many options as they can get to make money. With all those different colors, it was really confusing as to which ones were what, so we’ve narrowed it down. Now, if they are a small LAKA tab, they are yellow. If they are medium-size, they are red. If they are large, they’re black for the squares and the creases and such. So, that helps.

Shane Jacks: It’s a lot easier.

Keith Cosentino: To understand which ones people were asking about and which ones we’re selling. Same exact product. We just changed the colors, so they’re easily identifiable. If you wanna check those out, LAKAToolsUSA.com. When I first got them and put the site up, we had a really slamming sale on them. Then, we ran out of stock right away. It was a total bummer because they are imported from Germany, and it takes forever to get the stuff through customs and get it over here. If you went to the site later, everything was out of stock.

Everything is back in stock now, and we’re ready to sell you some more tabs, if you wanna try some. As we do once in a while, we like to give you guys that listen to the show the day it comes out a cool deal for being loyal listeners who listen to the show on time, bright and early on a Monday. We’re gonna offer another discount on LAKATools, so hop on there and enter the discount code 8315, which is the date. It’s 8315. Enter that in there, and it will take 35 percent off of the LAKA tool orders of any value. If you spend a lot of money, you can save a lot of money with that.

That’s just for the day the show comes out, on Monday. Enjoy it. If you’re hearing it on time. If you’re late the party again, learn to listen and listen to learn. You’ll get a deal, if you’re on the ball, Johnny on the spot. Man, Shane, we have a lot more stuff we wanna share, but it’s gonna have to be next week because we are super long on time.

Shane Jacks: Yes, we are.

Keith Cosentino: You guys gotta get out there and make some money. You’ve been hanging out on a podcast too long.

Shane Jacks: Good show though.

Keith Cosentino: It’s a great show. I’m excited for you and I to be back on together. We’ve been doing solo shows because we’ve bene so busy. This is really when the magic happens, when we’re both on the show. I’m glad to do it again.

Shane Jacks: Yes, sir. Good to be back.

Keith Cosentino: Until next time –

Shane Jacks: Get better.

[End of Audio]

Duration: 75 minutes