PDR College Podcast #109

Why you SHOULDN’T get into retail

Up to this point we have only talked about how great retail work is. Well, guess what? It’s a ton of work. 

It is VERY rewarding, but there are things you need to be ready for. Join us on episode 109 to make sure you have everything locked and loaded in your company!


Try the NEW Gang Green Tabs from blackplague HERE


Get Yourself some Shane Jacks PDR Tools


ReconPro for invoicing

PDR College Podcast #45

PDR College Podcast Episode 45 Cure Your Low Prices w These 3 Strategies

There are many things that hold you back when pricing your services. Most of those are in your head! In this show we breakdown THREE simple ways to increase your bottom line every day in PDR!

Get Better.

Links from the show:

NEW Smooth Series Tabs

A1 Tool PDRC Humpback tool 38Y31D-PDRC

Shane Jacks Blending Hammer

Recon Pro Invoicing software

Inner Circle Group

NEW German Dent Tape available NOW

Our Web Developer Nathan


Shane Jacks:    So, a major hailstorm has affected your area.  What do you do now?  Your phone is ringing off the hook, dealerships are inquiring about your services, and retail customers and body shops are eager to get in touch with you as well.  You want to capture as much as possible while still maintaining your sanity.  Now, how do you do this?  How do you close deals, interact with customers, and answer an unrelenting phone, all while not losing your mind?

Enter a PDR management company like The Hail Company. The Hail Company will come into town and manage sites of all sizes and kinds to maximize your profit potential, from placing the correct techs in the correct positions that they fit best to total management of wholesale operations.  The Hail Company will do whatever is necessary to make your storm experience a good, and more importantly, a profitable one.  So, give Ryan a call today at 636-734-5470, or email him at Ryan@TheHailCompany.com.  That’s Ryan@TheHailCompany.com.

Keith Cosentino:    I’m Keith Cosentino, he’s Shane Jacks, and this is PDR College Podcast, your personal connection to the highest levels of PDR.  We want you to come and join our party in the penthouse.  We’re having a good time up here, and we wanna bring you with us.  We wanna talk everything there is to talk about for the dent removal business, and we want you here with us.  We wanna teach you, and we wanna learn from you as a team.

PDR College is helping guys all over the country, and we’re excited to be a part of that, and we’re excited to have you with us here.  Every week, we’re talking about new topics that can bring more money into your pockets and reduce your working hours for the same amount of money you’re making, and generally make your life a better place doing what you enjoy doing and making more money at it.  So, we’re grateful that you’re here with us, we’re excited, and today is gonna be a fun show.

And the long-time listeners, you’ll probably realize at this point that normally you’re hearing from Shane, but he is not with us today.  Turns out, the fellows down at NASA have a little issue with R&I on the space shuttle and they needed an expert, so they flew Shane down there, actually flew him on a rocket.  It was a lot faster than a helicopter or plane, so he’s down there working on that, helping those guys, and once he’s done, he’s gonna come back, and he’ll be here next week.  But enjoy your time off, Shane, from the show, but we’re gonna have a good time here without you.

So, before I get started, I wanna talk about a couple of things before I get to our main topic.  One, I wanna talk a little bit about ReconPro.  We’ve been playing the commercial, but I have not had a time set aside to actually talk to you for a minute or two about it for the guys that have just started listening recently.

So, ReconPro is the software that I use to run my entire PDR company, minus the back-end bookkeeping which I use QuickBooks for.  The two integrate seamlessly, which they have to if you’re going to use an invoicing program and then bring it into your accounting software properly.  There’s a lot of little standalone programs that’ll help make an invoice, but if you’re running a real business, one that has legit books that you can show, or maybe if you’re gonna sell your company, you’ve got something to show what kind of numbers you’re doing and where the money’s going, you need a real accounting software, which is QuickBooks.  It’s almost industry standard.  There’s others, but that’s about what everybody likes to use, and ReconPro integrates with that perfectly.

But what it enables us to do is run everything on an electronic basis.  And if you’re just by yourself with one guy, it’s a little less complicated, but we’ve got several technicians here and everybody’s gotta be on the same page, and that’s what ReconPro allows us to do.

So, to give you just a quick rundown on how it works and why we use it, every technician has what they refer to as a “device,” which you and I would just call an iPhone.  They don’t have an Android version yet, but I believe they’re working on one.  Currently, it’s just iPhone, and so every technician has an iPhone.  It could be an iPad, but we use a phone because we already need to carry a phone, and I don’t see a necessity in carrying two different devices, so we stuck with the phone.

So, when you get to the job, you’re gonna meet the customer.  You’re gonna do your estimate probably in person verbally.  It’s a lot of work to do it on any phone or any device while you’re sitting there talking to the customer, and you really need to be making a personal connection with the customer anyways.  Nobody wants you to have your head stuffed down in a computer or phone going, “Yeah, um-hum, um-hum,” and hitting buttons.  They don’t know what’s going on.  So, you want to do that estimate, and personally I believe this is the right way to do it, in person, eye to eye, face to face.

Then, when that’s done and you’re gonna plug the information in, what you do is you get out the phone, you fire up the application – it loads really fast – and then you’re gonna head on over to the VIN tag on the car.  You’re gonna use the camera on the phone to snap a photo of the VIN.  That automatically populates all the information about the car into that particular — what they call an “inspection,” which is basically an estimate, so you don’t have to type any of that stuff in.

And they keep coming out with new versions of that scanner.  It keeps getting better and better and better.  The latest one is like a laser.  I mean, you hardly have to line it up.  Once in a while, if you’re out in the sun, it can be problematic because half the VIN is shaded, half of it is lit up by the sun, so the contrast between white and dark fools the camera into thinking that’s a different part of the barcode, so you have to get tricky and shade it sometimes.  If you’re inside, it’s not an issue at all.

But once you zap that, all the information’s in there.  You get to applying the repairs and times and values that you’ve assigned in the computer already.  There’s a bit of a setup process to get it set up the way you do it.  Maybe you’re a panel guy, and maybe you’re not.  Maybe you’re a hail guy.  Maybe you’re a combination of the two.  But you can handle all that in the setup.  It’s almost infinite.

It’s kind of a bear to set up because you can set anything up you wanted to.  You can price it by whatever you wanna do.  There’s a hundred programmable buttons in there, so you take the time to set that up.  It takes a minute or two to map out the way you run your company, how you price things, and how you want that to come up.  Maybe you wanna change it and maybe you don’t, but you’ve got to figure out how you do that so can put it into the system and use it.

Once you do that, it’s just a matter of clicking the right buttons and plopping them on the little photo, if you wanna choose that.  If you just want to go down a list and click boxes and check what you did, you can do that too.  It’s really flexible there.

Then you’ve moved on to the next step.  You’re gonna either issue a work order, which tells any and all – it tells whatever technician you want it to tell that it’s time to commence work on this vehicle.  Most of the time, you’re just telling yourself, “Okay, inspection is done and approved.  I’m gonna work on it.”  That’s a work order.  You complete the work, and you click one box and it turns it into an invoice.

At that point, you can pay that invoice with whatever payment method they give you.  You can mark it as paid and put some records, like a purchase order from a dealer or body shop, or a check or what have you.  And then right from the device, you can email that invoice to your customer or to yourself, so you have a record of it independent of the software.

When I first started, I emailed them all to myself because I didn’t trust the software.  After a little while, I realized that was stupid.  They’re all in the software.  It’s not going anywhere.  And the reason it doesn’t go anywhere is that it’s not stored there on the phone.  When you generate the invoice on the phone, it’s actually communicating with the server, generating the invoice there, and emailing it from there.  So, there really is very little precious information stored on the phone that isn’t backed up somewhere else.  It’s on the phone – you can see all your customers, you can get into their information, you can map them, you can call them from your customer list – but it’s not the only place it is.

So, like I’ve said before, which I think is really cool, you can make an invoice, pay it, send an email, press Send, and then you can just chuck that thing over your shoulder as far as you can into the middle of a lake and not even worry about a thing except for your phone.  All the information is stored somewhere else.  That was a big thing for me.  “If you lose your phone, gosh, you’re gonna lose all your information.  If you break it, how are you gonna re-invoice these people?”  That’s not a concern.  It’s all hanging out in what they call the back office, which I would call magic cloud server.

But it’s really, really simple to run through it.  It takes a minute to learn because it’s a new system.  It’s like firing up a computer for the first time.  If you’ve never done it, you need a little coaching, but once you understand it, piece of cake.

After that, the part about it that I love the most is the headache part of PDR at the end of the month.  And any of you that run a halfway successful business know what I’m talking about, especially if you’re heavy in wholesale.  At the end of the month, people are calling you, asking, “Hey, where’s this invoice?  Where’s that invoice?  I need a copy.  I didn’t pay this.  I didn’t pay this.”

And if you have none of that, which you do – you have a lot of it – but if you have none of it, you have to get those paper invoices into some kind of accounting system to be able to bill these dealers and body shops because they’re all paying on a what you hope is net 30, which you really experience is somewhere between net 45 and net 90.  These guys are all slow payers all over the country.  You have a couple good eggs, but mostly they’ll stretch you as long as you’ll go.  Anyways, you gotta get those guys billed somehow.

So, what my wife used to do is take our paper invoices, a big giant stack of them, and data entry by hand, enter every single one into QuickBooks.  It was like a one whole day deal of her time, just pounding away on a keyboard.  It’s mindless work.  Now all you do is click three buttons, and you tell it, “Okay, ReconPro, I’m done.  Let’s put these in QuickBooks.”  It says, “All right.  Do you wanna look at any of them and make sure they’re good?”  And early on, I was like, “Yeah, I gotta look at all of them.”  And then once I realized, again, that the software works, you don’t need to look at anything.  If you didn’t make mistakes in the first place, you don’t need to review them.  Just send them on through.

So, you send them right into your back office.  That takes like two minutes.  Boom!  They’re all in QuickBooks now.  ReconPro has done its job, and it’s handed the football off to the software for accounting which you’re probably using to bill people.  ReconPro is not an accounting software.  You don’t use it to issue checks to people.  You don’t use it to do billing.  You just use it to capture what happens in a physical world into your accounting system.  That’s it.  It’s not supposed to be an accounting system.

If you don’t have an accounting system, you need one as well.  And if you’re really trying to be professional about your business and you don’t know anything about that, which, quite honestly, I couldn’t run the books on my company.  My wife is an expert at it, but if you don’t have a wife who is or wants to be an expert at it – by the way, my wife was not.  She learned it herself over the course of years and now she’s very, very good at it, but she had to put some time in to learn it.  If you don’t have that person, hire a bookkeeper.  It’s not that big of a deal, and your books will be clean, and you’ll know where your money is and where it’s going, and you can make adjustments and make the company more profitable.  That’s the real purpose of having a solid back office.

It’s not for taxes.  That’s Purpose No. 2, which is also very important, but Purpose No.1 is to make the company more efficient  because if the company blows up and you’re out of money, you don’t need to worry about taxes really because you’re gonna go out of business.  So, if you’re gonna stay in business and be profitable, that’s the main goal.  Paying taxes is second because you’ve got to make money to pay taxes.

So, if you don’t have that person and it’s you, and you don’t really get it or you’ve been putting it off because you don’t understand it, hire a bookkeeper.  They’re not that expensive.  They’re not like accountants.  They’re basically accountants’ assistants.  I’m sure some are more expensive than others, but there’s lots of people – I’ll say people, but mostly gals I’d say – but there’s lots of people who know this stuff and work from home, kind of on a freelance basis, and it’s easy-peasy to deal with them.  You’re just dealing with the one person, just like hiring a dent guy.  You negotiate a rate with them, and they’re your guy or they’re your gal.  And you gotta be comfortable with them being in your books, but, I mean, that’s their business.  They are bookkeepers.

So, I would recommend that if you don’t have that person in your life and you don’t want to geek out on it.  Some of you are turbo geeks for your own numbers.  Rock on, man, you guys are awesome, and you know everything inside and out.  If you’re that guy, kudos to you.  I’m not that guy.  I’m kind of a big-picture strategy guy.  I get bored with the little numbers.  Although I love seeing reports, and tweaking techniques and programs to affect those report numbers, I don’t like the binary accounting part of it.  So, that’s not my gig.

So, anyways, that’s what ReconPro does for me.  It’s fantastic.  It is not expensive.  It’s under 100.00 bucks per user, and I think it varies a little bit depending on exactly what you’re doing.  The pricing is slightly variable, so don’t quote me on the exact figure, but it’s around that.  And for the amount of time my wife was spending, an entire day, I mean, what is that worth?  And that was happening on a weekend because we have kids, so somebody’s gotta watch the kids while she can pound on the computer for ten hours.  So, that was a weekend day smoked just to run the company, so that’s gone now.  Super cool.

It’s the best thing I did for my company to be able to build it and grow it.  Because as we started adding people and we were still on paper early on, now we’ve got like actual errors that guys are making on invoices with a pen and paper, that you’ve got to call somebody and say, “Hey, what is this?”  If I were to ask you, “Hey, remember that car you did three weeks ago?”  No, you don’t remember.   You gotta look it up and try to figure it out.  So, nobody can answer those questions right away, so that turned into another day and a half chasing around stupid little errors or “Where’s this number?” or “Why is this missing a number?”

Or dealers not paying an invoice because “Hey, this is the wrong stock number.  What’s the right one from the gold Camry?”  Well, I don’t know.  I don’t even remember fixing that car.  But now we have the VIN, which trumps everything.  I don’t care if the stock number’s right or wrong, or the color’s right or wrong.  I got the VIN, bro.  That is it, so that’s a lock.  You can’t argue with the VIN, and it’s scanned by the computer, so there’s not an error.  If you put the wrong VIN in, if you enter it manually, which you can, and the VIN’s wrong, it doesn’t come up at all because it’s the wrong VIN.  They’re all coded.  They mean something.

So, it really probably has just paid for itself in not lost or transposed numbers that nobody can pay us on later.  And if you do a lot of wholesale, you know that’s a reality.  These guys seem to like latch on to every chance they get to not pay you for something.  If you bill them late or you give them the wrong stock number, they’re like, “Hey, man, sorry.  My hands are tied.  I can’t bill this to anything,” which is total cop-out, but it happens all the time, so –

I bet the software, for us, has paid for itself just in that.  It’s paid for itself in several different areas.  That’s why I’m so passionate about it.  I think it’s fantastic.  So, check them out.  They’re at AutoMobileTechnologies.com.  We’ll have a link on the show page for PDRCollege.com, which you can always find and go straight over to their site.  Make sure you tell them that we sent you over there from PDR College.  They’ll take extra good care of you, roll out the carpet for you, and get you set up.

You gotta be willing to put a little time forward.  It’s kinda like learning PDR.  You’re not just gonna step into it and get it.  You need to put a little work in.  It’s gonna take a little bit of effort, but everything worth having is difficult to get.  So, put some work in and then it’s easy after that.  So, that’s ReconPro.  I’m glad to share a couple minutes on it with you.

[Begin Commercial]

Are you trying to stay on the cutting edge of paintless dent removal when it comes to your tools?  Well, if so, you need to make sure you have two things in your arsenal.  One is a Shane Jacks Jackhammer blending hammer.  Find it at BlendingHammerPDR.com.  If you want to learn blending, we’ve got an awesome tutorial to go along with the hammer right there on the site.  You’re gonna love it, you’re gonna learn something, and you’re gonna get better and make money.

In addition to the hammer, if you are doing any glue pulling, you need to have the Blackplague Crease Tabs.  It’s a six-piece crease pulling set.  The two largest are absolute monsters.  They are gonna pull out collision damage like nothing else you’ve got available.  And the smaller sizes are gonna be for the normal everyday kinda door edges and minor, minor collision dents, and a dog leg, and a bottom of a door.  I’m telling you, guys, it is going to change the way you do your repairs when you have the cutting-edge tools, and these are two of them.  BlackplaguePDR.com, BlendingHammerPDR.com.  Check out the sites, guys.  Bring yourselves into the 21st century.

[End Commercial]

Let’s talk about a couple of other things we’ve got in the works here that we have or have not spoken about recently.  The first one that I’ve kind of let sit for a little while is the Inner Circle.  That is super exciting to me.  We’ve just had a crazy busy last month with the launch of the tabs, and Shane and I have a project we’ve been working on together.  So, we’ve been kind of out of time, not to mention I took a vacation, and the holiday was all on top of us.

So, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, things have been stacking up, and we have had almost zero extra time to work on the Inner Circle, but it’s in progress.  We are really excited about it.  We’ve got a nice list of guys who are high-level players, and some guys that I’m interested to meet that we are going to get the application process out to.  There’s gonna be an application process.  You’ll get an email with a questionnaire.  You can fill it out in detail and submit it back, and we’re gonna make sure we are building this thing with the guys that you want to be a part of it with.  We want guys that are excited to network with other guys that are bringing something to the table, not just leeching out information, but actually contributing.

So, I’m really excited about that.  So, don’t think we’ve forgotten about it.  It’s a big deal.  It’s gonna happen.  It’s just taking a little bit more time than I anticipated to build it, but like I said with ReconPro, the things that are worth having are difficult to get.  So, be looking for that email.  I’m hoping to be able to get it out by the end of the year and get that thing rolling.  If everything goes as I’ve planned, we should be able to have a preliminary, like a meet-and-greet near the – at the MTE sometime because I know a lot of you guys are gonna be there for that.  So, excited about that.

And speaking about MTE, our Advanced Skills Seminar is completely sold out.  It was sold out before the last show aired when I said it might still be open.  It was already sold out.  We filled all those spots.  We’re kinda bummed that we couldn’t fit more people in there because there’s some people that are asking us, “Please, make some space,” but we had to keep it to a manageable size, otherwise we don’t get to spend enough time with people individually.

So, that’s two days coming up in January prior to the MTE, so everyone who’s gonna be there is already signed up.  We’re excited to see you guys.  We’re also gonna get some correspondence out to you soon and fill in some details that you might be wondering about for that, and kind of give you a heads-up what to expect, what to bring, and things like that.  So, man, we are excited about that.  That’s gonna be a lot of fun.

It’s almost like a little party, what we’re doing here, like a PDR party with all the guys that talk the same language as you and have similar goals.  It’s really been exciting.  Shane and I have had such a great time on the podcast.  And all of you guys who reach out to us on a personal level and thank us, and share the little war stories about what you’re doing and the things that we may have reminded you of or brought your attention to that are helping you make more money, it’s very, very fulfilling.  So, I want to thank you guys for being part of my life in that department.  It’s really been great.

And speaking of sharing that, had a couple iTunes reviews here that we’ve gotten since the last show.  This one comes from – you know, everybody, you have to enter a username, so most people just type in something whatever for iTunes – so this user is GT4Ever.  “Great info here,” five stars, “I’m a 15-year tech and enjoy listening to the show to find I am doing a lot of things correctly and figuring out how to fine-tune things I am doing incorrectly.  For the past few years of my career, I’ve been getting a little bored.  Keith and Shane have brought the passion back into my career.  Thanks, guys!”

That makes me so happy to hear.  I mean, it can be a little boring sometimes.  If you’re a one-man show, especially, and you’re doing lots of wholesale work, and you’re not interacting with a lot of new people all the time, it can be kind of a grind.  And no doubt, we’re well-compensated, it’s a relatively easy life, and we’re in it for a reason, right?  No doubt about that.  But if you’re on a dealer lot or dealer lots all day every day, you can get a little burned out, especially if you’re not networking, you’re not finding out about new tools, getting a chance to try them, and talking to other guys, you can kinda burn out.

So, it makes me so happy to know that maybe we’re the catalyst to keep some guy a little more excited, and go out there and bang on some bigger dents, and bring home some more money.  Or maybe he’s given up big dents, and he’s doing just cherries, and he’s making even more money, but whatever he’s doing, he’s more happy about it now because of the show, and that’s so freaking cool to hear.  So, thanks for sharing that.

The other one is from a new guy, NickLopez, spelled strangely.  This comes from November 21st, and he says, “I’m new to this field, but I feel like an expert listening to these guys,” five stars, “Absolutely amazing info.  I’m about two months into this industry.  I went to school to be an aircraft mechanic, but lost interest in it.  Then tried auto body, but lost interest in that too.  Then I found PDR.  I love it.  And you guys really make me push myself to be the best in the industry.  Thank you, guys, so much for the free info.  It is outstanding.  P.S. Soon to be the best – towards Shane LOL”

So, here’s a new guy, and I know some of the veteran guys are never happy about bringing new guys into the industry.  I have a slightly different outlook on that.  New guys are gonna get into the industry all the time, no matter what.  Whether they see you work or not, whether they know what you make or they don’t know, some guys are just car guys.  They’re getting in it for the same reason you got into it.  It’s interesting.  It doesn’t sound like it works.  They wanna know more about it.  They find out they can do it, make a living, not have a boss.  There’s guys that are gonna get into it all the time.

So, what we have to do is manage, as industry vets like you and I are, we have to manage this flow of new techs into the industry and guide them along so they don’t end up nose-diving the thing into the ground.  And the podcast is one of those things that’s helping.  I think Shane and I are doing our part to help educate the new guys.  If we can bring them this knowledge and let them know, “Keep your prices up.  Don’t do this.  Do do that.  Be professional.  Treat people properly.  Make a professional website.  Maintain it,” all these things that are making a successful business.

If we can help new guys get on that track sooner, these are not guys that are gonna run the industry down.  These are guys that are gonna hang their hat on the fact that they’re professional, they’re well-compensated, and they’re well-represented.  These are the guys that are gonna help carry the industry up and keep it where we like it.

It’s guys that get to the training, go home, and know nothing about the industry as a whole – those guys are gonna nosedive it.  They don’t know what it’s worth.  If they were making 15.00 bucks an hour before, they’re making 45.00 bucks an hour now.  They’re pumped.  They’re working for themselves.  They don’t know it can be ten times better, or should be, and they should be ashamed by doing X, Y, and Z.  So, we’re helping educate new guys about that.

So, I think the more we can help new guys, and tell them what they should be doing and where they should be doing it, the more we can keep the hackers driven out and keep our reputation where it should be, where I’m happy about it. So, I’m excited to be a part of that.

And I would encourage you guys, in your local markets, when you see another dent guy, if it’s a new guy or something, go meet the guy.  Don’t mean-dog him and try to – it’s only gonna get worse.  Go meet him, shake his hand, see if he’s a decent guy.  Maybe he’s a douche.  If he’s a douche, you’ll know it for sure then, and if he’s a decent guy, make friends with him.  If he’s a new guy, you can help him out a little bit, and possibly he can help you out.

At least one of my guys is on my team because I made friends with him and figured out that, “Hey, he’s a really good tech and an even better guy, and he is not really fulfilling his potential on his own.  He needs to be on the team.”  And when we changed that, everything was better for both of us.  So, those relationships are out there for you too, but they’re not gonna happen if you don’t go up, shake hands, meet the guy, and be professional and offer to help him.  It can benefit both of you, so I would encourage you to do that.

And even if you don’t do business with the guy, at least you can set an example for him and show him, “This is where you need to be.  This is the average price.  Don’t go low-balling stuff around town.”  I mean, if someone came to you and said, “Hey, guess what?  You can actually get three times what you’re charging for stuff,” you think you’d be angry about hearing that?  You think you’d say, “No, I’m not gonna do that, man.  I’m gonna stick here at this lower price”?  No, of course not.

If somebody came to you and said, “Hey, guess what?  You can actually get a lot more than what you’re getting,” they’re gonna do it.  They’re gonna go with you because who doesn’t want to make more money?  So, if you got a guy that’s really low-balling the industry, maybe he just needs more information.  Think about that.  Nobody would go down on purpose.  Maybe not nobody, but almost nobody.

All right, so today, let’s get into – ooh, ooh, I gotta cover one more thing.  This came out a couple weeks ago, but I did not have time to get it into the podcast and I’m excited about it.  The folks over at A-1 Tool, which is a fantastic tool company – they have fantastic tools at really, really amazing prices, I think.  I think a lot of their stuff could be more expensive, but they find a way to run the company with prices that I think are ridiculously low.  But they’re great.  I’ve been using their tools since I started in the business, and they never break.  They may not be the flashiest tools, but they are the workhorses.  They’re always there, and they’re always jamming.

And a couple episodes ago, maybe three, we talked about a custom tool that I had them make for me called – what I call – the humpback tool.  That’s not really – it has no name, but that’s what I call it because of that bend in the heel and then the blunt tip.  You can flip it around and use the heel backwards.

I guess I should take it from the top for guys who haven’t listened to the other show.  It’s a 3/8” pushing tool with just a simple U-turn on the back for a handle that’s dipped, and then on the tip, it’s like a normal 45-degree bend to a normal, basic round-ball tip.  It’s not fancy.  The difference is instead of the shaft going straight into the bend for the tip, it goes the opposite direction for a little curve and then up to the tip.  So, what it does is enables you to get through the same small hole and flip the tool backwards, use the heel, which is a big-radiused end, and then when you wanna finish, turn it around to get to the tip and finish it.

So, I talked to them about that custom tool which they have a record of making for me, and I said, “Hey, would you guys be willing to make that tool for other people?  Can you like map the specs and make a model for it, and if people want it, they can get it?”  And they said, “Yeah, we’d love to do it,” so they’ve done it.  So, you can order your own humpback tool now, and we’ll have a link on PDRCollege.com that’ll take you straight to their site.

I don’t think they have it listed on their site as a model, so you’ve gotta maybe call or email with the specific model number, which I’ll put on the podcast page as well, but here’s what it is.  And A-1 has a system of decoding their tools to tell you the diameter, the tip, the length, and all this kind of stuff.  So, it’s a little bit of alphabet soup, but this is the model number for the PDR College humpback tool.  It’s 38Y31D-PDRC, for PDR College.

So, 38Y31D-PDRC, and it’s $41.00 for a custom-made tool.  It’s bananas.  And that tool’s great.  And you can tweak it if you wanted to.  You can change the tip to something a little sharper, which would be a really neat tool.  Mine is blunt and blunt, but if you wanted to leave the humpback side for a super blunt and then make a sharp tip on the other side, that would be a sweet tool too.  You could do a lot of big pushes with the heel, and then turn around and finish with the sharp tool.  Guys are getting sharper and sharper now.  That would be a great tool.  In fact, it makes me think I wanna order one of those myself.

The fact that it’s 3/8 means that if you drill a ½” hole – I said it, we’re drilling holes on wholesale stuff all day long, guys.  Call me what you will.  Most guys call me well-off.  But with a 3/8 tool and a ½” hole, you can actually put three or four wraps of tape around the humpback, still get it through the hole so you have a big cushioned push, and then you turn around and finish with a sharp steel all in one tool, which is way fast and gets you into that hole with basically an interchangeable tip setup.

So, I love that thing.  It’s fantastic.  And I encourage you to get one for yourself.  At that price, how can you go wrong?  I mean, you basically get it out the first time and touch a piece of steel, and it’s paid for itself, and it’s gonna live with you for another ten years.  I don’t know how you don’t buy it.  But check it out, and share your feedback with me once you get it.  Tell me if you like it or not.  If you don’t like it, I will give you zero of your dollars back.  You’re gonna love it.  So awesome.  Thank you, guys at A-1, for doing that, really cool.

Okay, so let’s get to the meat of the show today.  We spent a lot of time housekeeping here, but we’re talking about how to cure your low pricing.  And we talk about pricing a lot on the show, but I brought this up for a reason, and here is the reason.

I went on vacation, like I said earlier, for about ten days, and had a little bit of stuff going on before that and a little bit of stuff after that, so I really was out of work for about two weeks, which was nice.  But when I came back, I had just a handful of days to finish the month, and I really needed to put the pedal to the metal.  I wanted to see if I could make an average month in half the time of a full month.

So, I’m trying to go balls out.  And everybody knows that when you really want to get a job, what does your pricing do?  [Bomb whistle] into the toilet.  You start bidding stuff to not lose it.  When you’re really, really, really busy, like there’s so much work in front of you and the phone won’t stop ringing, that’s when you naturally start raising your prices back up, up, up, just trying to scare people off.  And a lot of you who have done that, you know what happens.  You don’t scare them off.  You get the jobs, but it’s because you’re confident that if you lose it, you have five people in line behind this guy waiting.  It doesn’t matter if you lose it or not, you have plenty of work to do.

So, what I’m trying to do is remember to keep that mindset in the times when you want every job that comes across.  You gotta stop bidding them to not lose them.  And I was actually a victim of that myself just this last week.  And I recognized it, and I was able to make some adjustments midstride, but it wasn’t after losing a couple hundred bucks here and there that I had to really step back and audit my own stuff.

Part of the great part about doing this show is that you’ve gotta really look back at your own procedures and techniques, and remember to sometimes take the same lessons that you’re teaching.  If you really want to learn something, you teach it.  And some of you know that one of my hobbies is jujitsu, which is a ground-fighting sport that has an infinite number of techniques and leverage positions, and you submit your opponent by basically overpowering one of his joints with more of yours.

So, I got really into that.  I’ve been into it a long time.  I don’t have a lot of time to do it now because I’m so busy with the tool company, and the podcast, and my other business, and my kids, etc., but I love it still.  And since I’ve been doing it so long, I naturally end up getting paired up with a newer guy when I go, and kinda helping him along.  And I realized, even just five or six years into that, that when some guy’s asking me, “Hey, why do you do this?  When you execute that particular technique, why do you do this?”

And I had to think, “Oh, well, let’s see.  I don’t know exactly why I do it.  Let’s go through it and we’ll figure it out together.  I’ll be able to tell you why I do it.”  And once you kinda slow down, you realize, “Okay, the reason I do this is XYZ, so he can’t put his hand here,” or whatever.  But a lot of the things, when you’re moving full speed, you don’t realize what you’re doing, so when you have to teach someone else every little step of what you’re doing, you really have to know your game inside and out.

And that’s true for martial arts.  It’s true for PDR.  Always it’s funny when I say “martial arts” because it makes me think it’s like some retarded karate thing, but jujitsu is legit.  I started it because I saw it on TV like everybody else, like, “Hey, there’s actually guys that are training to fight for years on end, and they’re getting choked out unconscious, so I think this is probably cool stuff.  I’m gonna learn it.”  So, it’s not like that karate movie with Will Ferrell.  Anyways, when you’ve gotta teach something you’ve gotta know it inside and out.

So, my prices were sucking just last week because I was trying to go too fast.  I was trying to get everything.  So, I was able to step back away and adjust it midstride, and I got back to where I needed to be, but it made me really think of this and made me wanna cover it a little bit in detail with you.

So, I came up with a couple of ideas on what I could do for myself, which would apply for you as well.  I think, “Okay, Keith, how am I gonna solve this problem on paper that I can remember?  Like how can I make myself a couple of rules that I can stick with and make this change?”

So, here’s a couple of the things that I came up with.  I’ve never been a fan – well, in the past, up to this point, I’ve never been a fan of pricing systems, like, “Hey, it’s X amount of inches, and we have to do this, so you plug it in and you get the number.”  I have not been a fan of that.  I like looking at each job and determining, “Wow!  That is deep,” or “Man, that’s ground up sharp.  I’m gonna need more time for that,” and that’s been very successful for me.

However, I think I might be changing my opinion, and I’m going to put it to the test to the next couple weeks, and maybe some of you guys can do it too, and we can compare notes and see if it works for you.  But I was looking through some of my old photos of big dents and seeing, “I wonder if there’s an easy equation I can plug into these to come up with a figure, just as a starting point.”  And of course, you could tweak anything you want, but I said, “I wonder if I can come up with a figure.”

And I haven’t spent too much time like making a big deal about it because I don’t want to have a hard-nosed rule about like, “Okay, you gotta measure this, you gotta measure that, and you put this in.  Was it aluminum?  Is it body line?  Okay, it’s $942.15.”  That’s not really what I’m looking for, but something that can help you and the customer both realize that I’m not just yanking a figure out of my rear end, this is why it’s this much.

So, what I came up with is just some basic dollar-per-square-inch for big damage.  It doesn’t translate very well for small damage.  A dent’s gotta be above 3, 4, 5 inches for this to make sense.  But I think – and I’m gonna test it.  I’m not saying this is the solution to everyone’s problems, but I’m gonna test this on a couple big dents, and see how the reaction is with the customer, and how the reaction is for me and for the bill, ultimately, which is–

On a side note, one of the great things about running a company like this is you can change anything on a daily basis, and you can execute anything over and over again in the same day.  You can try this strategy for the dent in the morning, and you can give it up for the dent in the afternoon. You have a lot of opportunities to try and be flexible and be fluid with your company that you don’t get at a big company, so embrace that.

So, here’s what I came up with.  I think for a dent above 3, 4, 5”, they’re gonna be complex, usually not just round.  So, I’m gonna measure two directions, like top to bottom and left to right, or whatever the largest dimensions are, and just those two numbers.  So, just say the dent is 6 by 6 – it’s 36 square inches.  And it may not cover an entire 36 square inches to the naked eye.  To you and I, we’ll see there’s crown and everything probably stretching all over the center of that thing, but most people wouldn’t see what you see, unless it’s a perfect round dent.

So, if you’ve got 36 square inches, I think the price for most big dents is gonna be somewhere between 10.00 and $15.00 per square inch.  And if you come right in the middle at 12.00 or 13.00, then you can use that to say, “Okay, we’re normally at $13.00 a square inch.  That’ll be – whatever the math is – but for you, on this, we can do this or that.”  So I think it’s that number plus the R&I and possibly plus an upcharge for a body line, if you’ve gotta rebuild the body line through there, another $50.00 or $75.00 on top of that.

Now, it gets really expensive really fast for a big dent.  You can increase the square inches really fast if you like smash up a fender.  But maybe that’s where the price needs to be.  So, I want you to play around with that a little bit and see if it gives you at least a starting point to start negotiating that repair with that customer on a basis that makes sense and is easy to understand for both of you.

See, when you have a negotiation like that and you start somewhere, the start point is set the first time somebody says a number.  And you can set it high and work down from there, or they can set it low and you can work up from there.  But if you set it high and you set it there with an understandable system – you said, “Okay, here’s what we do.  We’re at $12.00 a square inch, so let’s measure this.  We are 6 by 6, that’s 36 times 12, so it’s like $432.00,” and then maybe a $50.00 upcharge if it’s through a body line.  So, that’s a pretty decent repair amount, 482.00, and if you have to go up or down from there, you can, adding R&I.  I think R&I always has to be extra if you’re gonna go this route.

But I’m gonna try it and see if it can keep me at a high starting point, and of course, you have the ability to negotiate down if you want to and add cheaper dents in addition to it, etc., etc.  But I think it’s a good starting point, so I’m gonna play with it.  I’m gonna start somewhere between 12.00 and 15.00 bucks a square inch for a big dent and see what happens.  I’ll eat my words if it turns out better, and I’ll adopt it across the whole company, but I’m gonna try that.  I’ve been vocal against it before, but who knows?  Old dogs, new tricks.  Let’s give it a shot.

The other thing is something I haven’t done but other guys have been successful with, at least purportedly, is like variable quality levels.  And it’s something that I do kind of once the estimate is going south, like I’m not feeling I’m gonna get this job because I’ve come in at a full retail number and they’re starting to give me signs that they don’t really want quality like that.  They’re gonna sell the car or something like that.

So, I guess it is something that I do after the fact, but some guys bring it in the beginning, and we’re gonna share a voice message from Daniel Gromm who called in to the show quite a while ago and mentioned how he does his variable pricing.  And let’s see Daniel’s strategy and compare it to what I might do.

Daniel Gromm:    Hey, guys, this is Daniel Gromm from Dent Dynamics listening to your latest podcast.  And the question when customers ask you, “How much do you charge?”  I always say, “Well, do you want regular PDR or do you want deluxe PDR?”  And then watch their eyes cross and scratch their head, and then when they say, “Regular,” I know that they want a low price.  If they want deluxe, they want the best.  Or if they ask, “What’s the difference?” I go, “One is okay, and one’s perfect.”  And it usually gets a laugh out of them, and usually you kinda gauge where they’re at from it and have a little fun with it.  So, there’s my answer.  Thanks, guys.  Keep up the good work.

Keith Cosentino:    So, apparently Daniel makes all of his phone calls from a motorcycle, but you get the point.  So, I’ve never done it like that.  I think it’s interesting.  I know he’s not the only guy to approach their customers like that and offer different degrees of quality up front.  And it is a great way for ferreting out what they’re after.  I don’t typically personally use the word “deluxe” very often, so that might not be my verbiage, but – and I don’t even know if I’ll adopt something like this because it’s very different than what I do, bringing that up in the beginning.

But it may not be that different because I’m handling that same issue at the end of the conversation or the middle, and maybe I could bring it to the front.  It’s worth a shot.  It’s worth a try to see what kind of reaction you get, so this is another strategy you can use to ferret out what they want.  Slow that conversation down a little bit.  See, one of the reasons you end up throwing out some bogus numbers early on is that you get to the price really quickly and you don’t take enough time to think about it, think about what kind of work is gonna go into it, think and ask what they need out of this job or what they expect, and then come up with a price that’s competitive for both of you, or agreeable.

So, by slowing down and asking more questions, your price is almost always greater.  Like when my techs and I talk about a job beforehand, with photos, and say, “What do you think about this?  I’m thinking here you’re gonna be three hours, you’re gonna be four hours, but you need to be at least 6, 7, $800.00,” it really helps you come up with a game plan and come up with a number that makes sense, that you don’t regret two hours later into a big dent.  Or a dent that you really glass out relatively quickly but bring a lot of value to the table if it’s a high-end car or something like that.

So, slowing down the estimate process is almost always good for you.  You’re gonna be able to price it better.  And if you slow it down and you give the high price and you start to lose it, if you’re still keeping that slower pace, you can say, “Okay, tell me why you don’t wanna do it for that.”  “Well, because I’m selling the car.”  “Okay, so let’s talk about this then.  I have a dealer-level quality that I do that is fantastic, but it’s not perfect because dealers don’t wanna pay for perfect.  They want the car as nice as it can be with the lowest possible price.  Maybe we can apply those same standards to this job for you and get this thing looking nice enough to sell just like the dealers, and save you some money.”

Now, that’s kind of the rescue close I use a lot when I can’t sell them on the high-price perfect repair.  And I’m just fine doing that.  Half the time I’m still doing the same repair job and making it look great, but I’m just capturing that job when I would have lost it otherwise.  So, that’s Strategy No. 2 that you can try to implement.

The third one is a little more of the numbers geek in me.  I’m looking in my QuickBooks, and we talked about that earlier in the show about having solid books and I’m looking at my average retail repair job.  And the average retail repair job for me was like $207.00 and some-odd cents.  So, that’s everything taken into account, big and small.  We’re doing more smaller dents than we are bigger dents by volume, of course.  Everybody knows that.  You can only do so many big crushes.

But you find out that average number and then decide you’re going to increase it.  I’m gonna increase my average by 25 percent, which is a huge jump.  25 percent is bonkers, but the dollar figure is low enough that I think it can bear it.  So, if I know that my average has been 207.00 and I want to get it to 232.00 or 240.00 or whatever, now I have a number in my head.  I need to be 240.00, which needs to be your new minimum basically, not your average because if you try to average it, you’re gonna go under it too many times, I think, personally.  So, if you wanna try to raise your average, raise your minimum to 240.00.

And you don’t advertise that because it gets to be a scary number for a lot of people.  In fact, I found when I was telling people my average was 150.00, and then I’d get there and do whatever closing they need to do, I had a higher success rate than telling people on the phone my average is 150.00 to 200.00.  That seemed to scare more people.  So, I’m sticking at 150.00 for my phone work, and then when I get in person, if there’s cost or need or reason or chance to upsell to 230.00, 240.00, 250.00, that’s what I’m gonna do there on the spot.  So, I’m gonna maintain that.

Now, please note that I am not purposefully trying to do a bait and switch.  I’m gonna tell them the average is approximately 150.00.  That gives me a little wiggle room to go to 180.00 and down to 130.00.  I feel like that’s a legit description when I say “approximately.”  But 150.00 to 200.00 was scaring too many people, so I’m gonna get there with 150.00 and hope for other factors that are going to have to increase their repair or other dents that I can find and upsell to get to 230.00, 240.00, 250.00, which is I think where I wanna be.

So, that’s something I’m gonna put on my dashboard in a little sticker that reminds me what the average cost needs to be, which is now the minimum cost because that’s what’s gonna raise your numbers up.  So, chasing after these numbers, that’s what changes them.

So, those are three strategies that I’m going to implement in these next few weeks, and I want you guys to try some of them or all of them, and let me know how they work for you.  And maybe you’ve got something that’s similar but a little bit different, that’s better, that did better for you.  So, if you’re so inclined, share it on the PDRCollege.com Discussion Questions after the show or on our Facebook page, PDR College.

[Begin Commercial]

The time has come.  The Blackplague Smooth Series Tabs are a reality.  They are available for you now on BlackplaguePDR.com.  If you’ve been living under a rock, it is time to come out.  We are making money out here with glue pulling, and we’re using the Smooth Series Tabs to do it.  We are getting pulls out of these tabs that you cannot get from any tabs, no matter the price.  These things flat hook up strong, snappy pulls every time.  These tabs, along with the Green Glue that we have also on the site, are blowing people away.

If you wanna be a part of the movement, get yourself over there and get some tabs into your box.  BlackplaguePDR.com or DeadRatTabs.com.  Guys, the game has changed.  Don’t get left behind.  Stay on the cutting edge.

[End Commercial]

The last thing we’re gonna talk about today is a tool review, and we’ve talked about it a time or two before, but I’m going to tell you about this new German Dent Tape that I’m using and that I’m selling on the BlackplaguePDR site.

I got started using it from one of my dent buddies, Arturus, Arthur.  He was using this tape that comes from the Mercedes-Benz factory.  You buy it from Mercedes, and it has their model sticker number on it and all that, or part number, rather, and it was like 36.00 bucks or something like that, with a discount.  It was expensive stuff, but they don’t use a lot of it.  It’s a huge roll.

And what it’s for is wrapping the wire looms.  And this tape was developed specifically for that cause, for that purpose, rather, because they needed something that had a high abrasion resistance, so when the loom is bouncing around just a little bit or rubbing against some kind of bracket, it doesn’t wear through the wire.  So, they needed higher abrasion resistance.

And cars get hot.  Wires sometimes get hot – not very often – but the cars get hot in the sun, and they needed something that wouldn’t break down under the heat after year after year after year.  So, this particular tape was developed for them and for other manufacturers, I’m sure, at the same time.  But they wanted these qualities in a tape.  Turns out, those qualities are exactly what makes a good dent tape:  high abrasion resistance – we’re pushing on them and grinding on them on the back of the metal – and high heat resistance.  If you have a nasty dent that needs tape, you need heat too.  You’ve gotta heat it up.

So, this tape has been like a little miracle.  And I’ll use it all by itself for almost any deep dent because it’s very, very thin as well.  You can get three or four or five wraps around it, and it still is not a lot of material, bulky-wise, on the end of the tool, bulk-wise, and you can get it into a tiny spot still.

So, I’m wrapping lots of little tools and lots of big tools with this tape.  Now sometimes, I still want to use a piece of leather, which is just slightly superior to this tape, because this tape will eventually break through.  It takes a long time, like you can probably do a couple of dents with the same handful of wraps on that tool, versus like a duct tape – you’re gonna get a handful of pushes before it breaks through.  But leather almost won’t break through, unless you’re pushing with a sharp tool with leather, which doesn’t really make that much sense anyways.

So, leather is still superior for the push, but leather is bulky, and it’s hard to get into a hole or a small cavity, or if you’re in a limited-space scenario.  The tape is better for that.  But when I can use the leather, getting it to stick on the end of the tool is sometimes a challenge, so I use this same tape to secure a piece of leather.  So, sometimes I’ll lay the tape sticky-side-up and cut like just a little, a half-inch square of leather, and put it in the tape, and then use the tape to like make a band-aid, a leather band-aid, and put it right over the tip of the tool, and then maybe just wrap it one more time to keep it shifting from left and right, and I’m good to go.  I’ve got a piece of leather under my tool with minimal material wrapped around that’ll still get into the area I needed to get into.

So, for the price you pay for this stuff – we got it for 22.00 bucks – one roll’s gonna almost last you indefinitely unless you’re like the dent machine, and you’re fixing 52 big dents a day, and you’re wrapping every single tool.  It’s gonna last.  You’ll probably lose it before you use it all.

So, I think it’s fantastic, and I’m excited to have it because when I first started using it, I thought, “Man, this is freaking cool.”  I just didn’t like the fact that I have to go to the dealership and talk to the parts guy, and have him look it up, and maybe they have it, maybe they don’t.  It was a pain in the butt.  So now that I’ve got it in one place, you can just make a couple clicks, and I’ll send it to your doorstep.  That’s much easier.

So, check it out.  We’ll have a link on PDRCollege.com.  Shane also uses this tape.  He started using it when he was at the BMW assembly plant early in his career because they use that tape there to tape up wires, and he had access to it.  So, it’s a BMW and Mercedes OEM original, and the stuff I’ve got is not a knockoff.  It is the OEM German-made stuff.  It just doesn’t say Mercedes on it, so that’s why I was able to get it cheaper.

So, enjoy the German Dent Tape.  Tell us about your experiences changing your pricing strategy, if you wanna change it for retail.  Let’s see what we can come up with together to raise the bar for everybody.  And go buy that custom tool from A-1.  You’re gonna thank me for that.  That plus the tape is what I use.  I use the tape on the humpback portion to cushion the big push through a ½” hole.  I can get around it 4, 5, 6 times, and it fits easy without shoving it in there.  Really, really fast setup.  And what?  The whole entire shooting match there, 41.00 and 22.00, 63.00 bucks.  I almost wanna start selling it on the side so I can mark it up 100.00 bucks to the real price that that combo should be.  Or 200.00 bucks.  I’d make so much money with those two little cheap rascals.

So, check it out and bring it into your kit, and do not be left behind with old tools.  That’s how you got stuck in the first place.  You gotta stay on the cutting edge.

Speaking of cutting edge, I’ve got to tell you Blackplague Smooth Series Tabs are taking over the world.  These things are rocking everybody’s world who tries them.  It sounds like I’m just selling you, and I would think I’m just selling you as well, until like the 105th person has emailed me or Facebooked me and said, “Okay, Keith, I thought it was hype, but these things are stupid.  They pull ridiculous, especially the small tabs.”

The small tabs are really what’s changing the game.  I mean, it’s not rocket science to get a big giant tab to stick to a car – it’s a lot of glue.  But the little tabs – if you can make a little tab stick, that’s the true test, and that’s what we’ve done.  These little tabs are just ripping metal.  They’re fantastic.  So if you don’t have them, you’re behind.  You’re slower than you were, than you could be.

So, get them.  It’s like the cheapest thing you can add to your glue pulling arsenal that’s gonna cut your time in half.  Some guys are telling me their time is half on a rail.  That’s nuts because I don’t even do that many rails.  I’m not a hail guy.  I wish I was because I’d be richer, but the guys that are?  They are smoking through rails way faster with these small tabs because they’re not having to re-pull, re-pull, re-pull.  One pull, they’re getting it up, and if you have clean tap down work, you’re done.  Yes, even if it has a pit.

So, try it out.  If you don’t like it, I’ll buy them back.  I have not bought anybody’s tabs back.  Everybody loves them.  But if you’re worried about it, I’ll buy them back from you.  I’ve got people standing in line to buy them from me, so I’ll take them back.  But check them out as well.

They’re on the site BlackplaguePDR, and now they’re starting to pop up in other tool companies’ catalogs now.  They’re gonna be at Dentcraft, if they’re not there now.  They’re at PDR Outlet, they’re at PDR Gear, and they’re at Pro PDR Solutions.  And they’re at TDN Tools.  For you UK guys who don’t want to wait for my shipping, they’re coming right from TDN.  So, they’re there.  Get them in your box yesterday because you are losing money if you don’t have them.

I look forward to talking to you guys next week. Thanks for spending an hour with us.  Until next time, get better.

[End of Audio]

Duration: 56 minutes

PDR College Podcast #39

Tools You Didn’t Know You Needed …
Plus: Details On The Advanced Seminar!


SPACE LIMITED: Sign up for Shane Jack’s Training Seminar

Dent Dial


PDR Finesse Tool

Ultra Hail Breakdown Rod

Dentcraft Shaved Tools

Pro PDR Fathead



Sales Closes


Keith Consentino:    I’m Keith Consentino, he’s Shane Jacks, and this is the PDR College podcast, where we want you to level up your PDR business.  We are going to teach you the techniques you need to make more money.  We’re going to be talking tools, we’re going to be talking techniques, but we’re going to be spending most of our time talking about the business.  We want you to make so much money, we want your neighbors to start thinking you’re selling drugs.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah Keith, I’ve tried that drug selling before, Tylenol, ibuprofen, I just couldn’t make any money off of it.
Keith Consentino:    No, you’ve got to mix it up with lacquer thinner or something I think.
Shane Jacks:    Got you.  Okay, cool.  How are you this week?
Keith Consentino:    You know what?  I’m doing great this week.  I’m a little overworked, to be honest, putting all this glue tab stuff together, but I’m happy.  I’m excited.
Shane Jacks:    You should be.  Those things are awesome.
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, I’m having lots of fun with them and getting tired of people messaging me asking when they’re going to be for sale.
Shane Jacks:    You teased a little too early, apparently.
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, maybe.  I learned from some of my best girlfriends.
Shane Jacks:    That’s terrible.
Keith Consentino:    I know.
Shane Jacks:    I can tell your wife still isn’t listening to the show.
Keith Consentino:    Total immunity.  So today’s episode we’re going to be talking two things, right?  Today we are of course going to be talking about the topic, which are the 10 tools you didn’t know you needed until you needed them, and we’re going to be spending a few minutes at least with you, talking about your upcoming skill seminar.
Shane Jacks:    Our upcoming skills seminar.
Keith Consentino:    I can fix a dent, but I’m no Shane Jacks.
Shane Jacks:    You may be better.
Keith Consentino:    It’s possible.  Plenty of people would argue that I am, and I would believe them.
Shane Jacks:    Including yourself and me at this point.
Keith Consentino:    No.  Not the judges at the Dent Olympics.
Shane Jacks:    That’s true.  Now I’m going to be 40 next month.
Keith Consentino:    Are you really?
Shane Jacks:    Yes, and I’m getting old, man.  I’ve got to pass some of these skills onto these younger bucks.
Keith Consentino:    Our birthdays are not too far apart, but I’m not going to be 40.
Shane Jacks:    Mine is November 26th, for all of you out there that needs to send me a present.  I didn’t say wants, needs to.
Keith Consentino:    We’re less than a month apart.  Mine is December 20th, so feel free to tell me whatever you give me is for both my birthday and Christmas, because that’s how I grew up.
Shane Jacks:    My presence should be enough for you.
Keith Consentino:    I grew up a poor black man.  So, you know what?  Let’s go backwards.  Let’s talk about that training just a little bit.  Let’s talk about some of the things we are going to cover throughout it.
Shane Jacks:    All right.  You sounded like Mitch Hedberg there when you said that. “Throughout it.”
Keith Consentino:    I like to say it sometimes just like Mitch Hedberg.  If you’ve never heard of Mitch Hedberg and you like comedy and you can handle a few F bombs, you’ve got to listen to Mitch Hedberg.  He’s dead now because he was a drug addict, but probably the funniest guy I’ve ever heard, if you like quirky comedy.
Shane Jacks:    It’s very quirky, absolutely hilarious fellow.  One of the best, in my opinion.  But anyway, back to whatever our topic is today.
Keith Consentino:    Snake eyes.  It’s a gambling term.  It’s also an animal term.
Shane Jacks:    A forklift.  Lifting a box of forks.  That would be literal.
Keith Consentino:    All right.  Rein it back in.  We are talking about the training.  Let’s hear it.  What are you going to teach us?  Two days in Florida, two full days, two eight hour days, working on actual cars.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah, and listening to me tell you how to do it, or at least in my opinion.  So there are several things we’re going to go over.  Let me count what we’ve got.  We’ve got seven or eight things right here, Keith, that I know we are going to talk about down there for sure.  One being big smashes.  All right? How do we start big smashes?  And the one thing about big smashes is there is no one thing you start with.  Because, and I was thinking about this yesterday actually, PDR is as much reactive as it is proactive.  Does that make sense, Keith?
Keith Consentino:    It really does.
Shane Jacks:    So whenever you start, I mean, how many times, Keith, you do big stuff like I do.
Keith Consentino:    Unfortunately, yes, I do.
Shane Jacks:    Yes, that is what fills our days.  Whenever you start a dent, sometimes you look at it and you go, “This is where the pressure is, this is where I need to start, this is where I need to go next,” and then you are completely opposite of that about three minutes into the dent.  How many times does that happen to you?
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, it does happen.  I’ll say it happens a lot less than it used to when I was newer, but it does still happen.  I screwed a big one up the other day.  It cost me a couple of extra hours going backwards and undoing what I did, because I didn’t release the pressure properly.
Shane Jacks:    Now there are some rules that typically apply to these big smashes that we can follow, and we’re going to learn those, but there are times when it’s very complex and there’s a lot going on there, and you really don’t know where to start.  And so we’re going to go through those tested, those tried and true methods of where you probably should start, and most of the time, 90 percent of the time, but then we’re also going to kind of look at as much as we possibly can how to react when things aren’t going the way we want them to go.  So you’ve got to adjust to what the metal is telling you.  That’s what we’re going to learn on big smashes.  On small dents, you can recover a lot faster if you start it wrong, so on big smashes if you start it wrong, you’re going to, how much extra work did that cause you Keith, on that bad side?
Keith Consentino:    An hour or two at least.  It was a tough one.
Shane Jacks:    So we’re going to learn how to try to keep that from happening as much as we possibly can.  Also on big smashes, sometimes you’ve got to make it look ugly before you can make it look pretty.
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, that’s the truth, and when a customer comes out in the middle, you’re like, “Hey,” I think I’ve said this line before on the show that I use, but I say, “Hey, it’s kind of like sausage.  You don’t really want to see it until it’s all done.”
Shane Jacks:    It’s kind of like sausage.  That’s pretty good.
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, “I know it looks kind of lumpy, but just wait until I’m finished here.”
Shane Jacks:    But only it’s big smashes.  One thing I can tell you right now, a little tip right now, is really finding your pressure and relieving some of that pressure in the very beginning.  Kind of fool with that in the time being.  If you’re doing big smashes and you’re just going in there and pushing and then knocking down and sometimes that’s not the best way to go.  You need to put a little bit of pressure and relieve pressure in other areas at the same time.  That’s where tools like the Dent Dial or if you are two-handed with a hammer, you can just push with a tool and knock down with a hammer.  So we’re going to learn a lot about big smashes when we’re down there.
Keith Consentino:    Finding the pressure traps.
Shane Jacks:    Right, correct, and relieving those.
Keith Consentino:    I know one of the things I’m most interested in you teaching is fixing that dent Olympic Dent which is not a big, but a deep, nasty dent with some stretch to it.  That’s what I want to learn to fix as well as you are.
Shane Jacks:    And you will.  As soon as we leave you’ll be a master Jedi at that.  You already are.
Keith Consentino:    And we did a show on that, how to win the Dent Olympics, and we talked about how to attack those dents.  But for guys that aren’t going to be able to make it because they haven’t applied the techniques yet and they don’t have stacks of cash, give us the technique for attacking that dent.  What do you do?
Shane Jacks:    Start with the light.  Seeing a dent is everything, and seeing the middle of a dent is paramount in a dent like that.  So a light source or a reflection source, whichever you choose to use, that’s a big debate topic right there, lines versus fog, but starting with a reflection source that you’re familiar with and comfortable with and something that you can see the very center of the dent with.  Start in the middle of the dent with a sharp, and again, some techs can’t use sharp tools as well as others.  But you’ve got to be able to see the middle of that dent, and if you use a sharp tool and you come up in tiny little stages, and in those stages, instead of going – and I’m going to try to explain this as well as I can, Keith, and as quick as I can so we can move on, but try not to stripe it up, put striations in it, by moving in more of a circular or star pattern instead of a left to right, up and down patter.  That goes for hail also.
Really any kind of dent besides a crease, anything that’s round, you’re going to want to move in a circular star, jump around pattern, however you want to say it.
Keith Consentino:    So when you say put the light so you can see the bottom I mean, to me, what I’m picturing is the light may be eight inches away from the dent and down at a 45-degree angle at the bottom.  Is that what you’re doing, real close like that?
Shane Jacks:    Correct, real close.  You can also, if your bulb is too fat at that point and it’s washing the dent out and you can see too much of the center, pulling that angle up a little bit and moving the light a little further away will make your bulb appear smaller and make your fade appear smaller.  So you’ve just got to get that distance, and I think it’s different for every person, Keith.  You’ve got to get that distance where the amount of fade and the amount of bulb that’s showing in the center of that dent is where you can see the very center, but it’s also pushing to the point where you can’t see the center, so you can see your tip better.  Does that make any sense whatsoever?
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, I think so.  You’re right on the borderline of being able to see the bottom and being able to see the whole thing.
Shane Jacks:    Because you can see your tip better, where your tip is, the greater angle between you and the light.  So you’ve got to dance on a happy medium there.  Bring it up in stages with a sharp tip tool, those deep dents like that, and then gradually move your light away and in to that greater angle, and finish that bad boy with your light as far away as possible and your body stretched out as far as possible, which is where a blending hammer comes in really handy.
Keith Consentino:    Now speaking of the blending hammer, are you relieving pressure at all in those deep dents before you start pushing?
Shane Jacks:    Oh yeah, good point Keith.  Before I start pushing, I will on those deep dents, especially on a stiffer panel like that, on the side of the door, sometimes when they’re near the top, I’ll relieve a little more pressure the stiffer the panel. If it’s a big floppy panel and not quite as much, like a roof, but if there’s a lot of spring to the metal, but I am going to relieve pressure around that, tap gently around the very outer edge crown.  What you’re doing, it may be imperceptible to your eyes.  You may not see any relief going on there, you may not see the dent getting any wider, but you’re relieving pressure, and you’ve got to play with that as you go with it.  When you start pushing on the dent, after you’ve relieved pressure, it should feel a little bit different and it should react a little bit differently.  If it’s reacting the same as when you started, you haven’t relieved any pressure.
Keith Consentino:    Okay, that’s awesome.  I think even if you don’t make it you can use those tips and start your real deep dents in a different manner and see if you can bring them up clean.  And if you come in person, you’re going to see Shane do it over and over.  You’ve got questions that come up right there, we can tackle them.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah.  Another thing we’re going to go over is creases, how to start a crease, how to, working creases, to me, is something that this is where you’re going to learn a ton about the big smashes.  But I would be willing to bet, on the creases, some of you are going to learn more about creases than anything else, because there are a few things that I – how many of you, when you’re done, and Keith, you can ask this if you want to too.  Your work is virtually flawless also.  But whenever you start a crease and then you get done and you go up and you’re looking long ways into the crease and the whole freaking thing is high.  How many times has that happened?
Keith Consentino:    Oh yeah, it’s part of the process for me.  I just know I’ve got to look for it before I’m done, and fix it.
Shane Jacks:    We can eliminate that while we’re working the dent.  Just some things I’ve learned over the years.  We’re going to learn what kind of tools.  Light placement is key to what you’re talking about there Keith.
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, and when you’re talking about, when I know I’m going to end up high and I’m going to plan that into my repair at the end, but that’s probably one of the differences why I was so all up in your stuff when you were telling me how fast you were blowing through some of these creases, because you’re doing them without the last third that I do it, so you’re taking a third of the time off and ending up flat and I’m ending up high and having to go back and re-work it. And I’m still finishing them nice, but you’re doing them in 60 percent of the time.  So in my world, that wasn’t even real.  You couldn’t even do it.  So you’re going to show us where you’re making up that time.
Shane Jacks:    Right.  And again, being reactive is kind of the key on this, when you pick out a tool.  I look at a crease, Keith, and creases vary so much, and depending on the width to the depth, you know, it depends on which tool you’re using.  Half the time, I pick the wrong tool to begin with, and then I see that and I react.  I see a lot of techs, whenever they’re working on whether it be hail and roof or a crease down the side of a door, they’re picking a tool and then, in their mind, they thought, “Well this is the tool I used last time.  This is the tool I’m sticking with.  It turned out great last time.”  You can’t do that on all cars.  You can’t do that on all metal.  Even if it’s the same model car and the crease is in the same spot, there could be a minute difference in the depth, and using the wrong tool –
Keith Consentino:    Oh man, how many times marching down that crease and you get to the sound pad?
Shane Jacks:    Exactly, yeah.  Edge of the sound pad.  Those are awful, right on the edge.  So we’re going to talk about that and light placement is key.  I can give you one little tip about light placement to start the dents with for creases and Keith, I believe you do this, is start the light, you’re not going to be totally parallel with the dent, not totally perpendicular to it, but kind of at a 45.  That’s how I will start most creases if they’re not extremely deep.
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, that’ll keep it from ruining it one way or the other.
Shane Jacks:    Correct.  You can see it both ways.
Keith Consentino:    Mitigate it, anyway.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah, right.  Hail strategies for speed.  We’re going to talk about –
Keith Consentino:    That’s a big one.
Shane Jacks:    Dude, and there are just a few things that you’re going to go, “Crap, that makes so much sense,” and some of this stuff I’ve learned over just the last few years.  Some of it is buying the right equipment and some of it, it’s just, even down to where you set up.  With hail, man, especially when you’re on some of these wholesale gigs, a lot of you guys are doing wholesale stuff, and it’s just speed is paramount.  And where to even set up in the building, you know what I’m saying?  I was in Minnesota last year with, I’m not going to say his name because I didn’t get his permission to say it, but he’s kind of seen as a leader in this industry, and he comes straight in, and he picks out this one spot, and I’m like, “Why are you picking that spot out?”  And he says, “Because I know some things that you don’t know.”  And I’m like, “What does he know that I don’t know?”  And what it was, the gentleman that was going to run the place, he was going to set a desk up right beside him, number one, he was at the entrance to the building, so he could get his car in and out super fast.
He had nobody on his left side, and on his right side was where the desk was going to be, so there wasn’t another car there with other tools.  So he wasn’t bumping into somebody else.  He came in to stake that claim and I’m directly across from him and I’m like, “That’s smart.  He helped save some time there and save some hassle of having guys beside him that wanted to talk or have their tool carts over in your area,” so that’s just a tiny little tip, but every little bit matters.  Keith, you’ve told me this before.  When you were out here, I pulled a car into my shop and you said, “Roll all the windows down.  Pop the trunk and pop the hood.”  I’m like, “Well there’s not a dent on the hood.  There’s not a dent on the trunk.”  “You never know.  You might have missed one.”
Keith Consentino:    That’s how I sound.
Shane Jacks:    That’s pretty much exactly how you sound.  So hail strategies for speed, all the way from setting up, what I just told you, down to light placement.  We say light placement a lot, but that is huge in this.  You can’t hit what you can’t see.  Glue pulling hail.  Edges.  You know the edges of rails and relieving pressure so we can get those things up.  We’re going to talk about that.  Blending hammer will come in big on that topic.
Keith Consentino:    We’re going to spend a lot of time on blending.
Shane Jacks:    And tabs to use on glue pulling.  So glue pulling hail, that’s going to be a big one.  Glue pulling smashes, glue pulling creases, again, there’s going to be a lot of blending and a lot of glue pulling going on in this thing because that is something that crosses from Door Ding all the way over to hail, and so there are some tips that you and I have learned, Keith, about this glue pulling and blending stuff that is just going to make your job so much quicker and so much better.
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, you know what?  I’m constantly amazed at the simplicity that glue pulling is, and then the complexity that’s there.  It’s almost like the more simple a technique is, the harder it is to master.  And I, you know, obviously I am not the average guy when it comes to glue pulling, because I spend so much time working on it, but I’ll put the same tools and everything in someone else’s hands across the country, or they’ll call me and send me an email and say, “Hey, I can’t get these tabs to stick.” And I think, “Man, how can you not get any tab to stick?”  But I take it for granted, because I know everything about glue pulling, so I think, “Yeah, this stuff is simple.  Just like Shane likes to say, ‘It’s simple if you know what you’re doing.’  But if you don’t know what you’re doing,” and listen, nobody wants to admit, “Hey, me, I don’t know what I’m doing.  Pick me.”
Everybody says, “Yeah, I know what I’m doing,” because we’re used to walking into a building and knowing something nobody else knows.  We’re the dent guy.  “Oh, we’re glad you’re here.  See what you can do for it.”  We’re used to that for so many years.  So to come up and say, “Hey, I don’t know what I’m doing here,” it doesn’t happen very often, but people will say, “Oh, these tabs don’t work,” or, “This glue sucks,” or, “You can’t glue pull in 40-degree weather or you can’t glue pull in 100-degree weather.”  They just don’t know what they don’t know.  And we’re going to show you everything we know about glue pulling in these things.  As much as you want to know, we’re going to teach you, because that is a big deal.  You could take all my tools and I could still fix probably 95, 99 percent of the stuff I work on.  It may not be as fast, and sometimes it may be faster, but I could still do just about everything with glue pulling and Shane, I know you’re the same way.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah, for sure.  There’s one well-known hail tech out there and he does entire cars glue pulling at times, and he just does it to prove a point.  He’s proficient at glue pulling and that’s what he enjoys doing, and he believes that’s the future of our industry.  And a few years ago I’d have said, “Eh, whatever.”  But again, I’m going to talk about glue pulling smashes and glue pulling creases.  With the smashes there is quite a science involved in that and a technique that, again, Keith and I, along with some of you others, may have honed over the years and got down to just a science.  But the creases, they’re almost a freaking no brainer now with the Black Plague, so we’re going to teach you what we know with the Black Plague tabs to glue pull the creases.  And once you know the basics of that, man, and using your knock down and/or hammer correctly, glue pulling creases are just going to be, it’s amazing to me what we can do with these new tabs.
Keith Consentino:    How quick, yeah.
Shane Jacks:    How quick and how effective it is.  Three years ago I would have said, “You’re absolutely crazy.  There is no way that dent will come out with glue. It’s not going to happen,” and it was me again, for the umpteenth time, set in my ways and not willing to change.
Keith Consentino:    So that’s just some of the stuff, and let me add that we’re going to teach what we’re going to teach, but we’re also open, if the group really has a desire to spend time on something or to bring up something that we haven’t thought about, we’re open to teaching that as well.  So we’re there to help you guys get better.  Most guys are going to want to learn all these topics, but there’s going to be a couple of things that’ll probably pop up that maybe Shane and I didn’t even consider, so when you guys start getting on this list, if you want to start talking to us and telling us what you want to hear, let us have it, and if enough people are interested in it, we’ll spend a lot of time on it.  That is January 13th and 14th in Orlando, Florida, at the same exact venue that the Mobile Tech Expo is going to be at.  It’s probably going to be in some of the same room sat some of the other seminars you’re going to be a couple of days later on Thursday.
So if you’re interested, we’ll have, by the time this show is live, we should have a link on the PDR College website, pdrcollege.com, where you can click and register yourself a spot or at least find out more solid information there on the site.  But we’re very excited about it, especially to see all the guys who are serious about the PDR business show up a couple of days before the show, spend two solid days, and then spend a couple of days at the show picking out the new tools to pull off all these new techniques, because you’re going to have to buy some stuff probably.
Shane Jacks:    You will make your money back immediately.  Virtually immediately.
Keith Consentino:    I never spent money on a tool. I make money with all my tools.  That being said –
Shane Jacks:    And when that thing hits, when we have that open, we’ll announce it of course on the podcast as soon as we can get it up to register, but you’ve got to get in quick.  There are a limited number of spots for the seminar.
Keith Consentino:    Very limited.  And of course I’ve said, if you’re on the email list, that’s where you’re going to hear about it first, and I will keep my word there.  We’ll send an email out with the link, with kind of like a hidden link, so you’ll get a chance to go and register first, and then it’s going to be live on the site for the public to find.  So when you get that email, if you’re interested, you’d better click on that rascal and get in there and reserve yourself a spot, because it’s not a big class.  Shane fought me the whole way.  I wanted 150 people there and he said, “Nope.”
Shane Jacks:    Can’t do it man.  I want guys to come out of there feeling like we spent one on one time with them and we answered their questions fully, and show them everything they could possibly want to know in those two days.
Keith Consentino:    So that’s what it is.  I don’t have the final numbers, but I think it’s under 25 or something, how many people we decided to take, so hop on it quick if you guys are interested, and we’re excited about spending a couple of days with that group.  I’m sure we’re going to make some friendships that will last for a long time there.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah, for sure.
Keith Consentino:    Either that or somebody is going to try to prison shank somebody else, spending two days in a yard.
Shane Jacks:    Comedy will be provided for free at the seminar.
Keith Consentino:    Lord help you.
Shane Jacks:    Courtesy of Keith Rose-colored Glasses Consentino.
Keith Consentino:    We will not be providing any paid comedy, but we will have lunches.  We’re going to have a nice lunch.  All right, so today’s second topic, or the topic for the show that is not our seminar is the 10 tools you didn’t know you needed until you needed them.  That’s every tool I guess.
Shane Jacks:    Technically you are correct.
Keith Consentino:    But Shane and I both have a list of five that are different from each other, so we’re going to kind of go back and forth and talk about these tools, and these are all tools that, at least in some point in our careers, we’ve went years and years and years without and we’re completely successful day in and day out, and didn’t know we needed these tools, because you didn’t know what you were missing.  For example, you didn’t know you could glue pull a crease before, so you didn’t feel like you were missing anything.  Now you take that away, and you have to change your strategy on a lot of creases.  So I will let you go first.
Shane Jacks:    All right.  Excuse me.  One of the tools, and these are in no particular order, by the way, is a dent dial, or a tool similar to that, dent dial being the one that Keith and I use.  I use this thing, I don’t use it very much, and when I got the thing to begin with, I bought it and thought, “Well I may never use this thing,” but immediately had the bottom of a bedside that I needed to do, Keith, where you have zero leverage on the bottom of it, and this dent was one that another PDR tech in my area, who should be well-known by now, with all the pictures and videos I post of him hacking stuff up, he had really destroyed a silver bedside, discolored it, and I had to knock down those highs really low to attempt to take the discoloration out.  And I was successful, but I used the dent dial and used the, because of the sliding tip that’s on the dent dial, shoved the end of the tool up behind the box inside the bedside and then adjust the tip down and pull and got that dent out.  So the dent dial, there are some instances where you could really use something that’s kind of outside of the norm for a dent tool, with an adjustable tip in the middle of the tool like that.  So number one is the dent dial.  You want to go next, Keith?
Keith Consentino:    Well I also use a dent dial, and like you said, I didn’t – I saw it and I like Sal a lot.  At least now I do.  I thought he was pretty full of himself when we first met.  I thought, “Who’s this guy with all these homemade tools?”
Shane Jacks:    Sal and I still think that of each other mutually.
Keith Consentino:    We love Sal.
Shane Jacks:    But we get along.
Keith Consentino:    So I saw the dent dial and I thought, “Yeah, that maybe works great for Sal, but that’s not really for me.  I don’t like to take stuff apart.  But the more we got to know each other, the more I thought, “All right, I’ll give the dent dial a shot.”  And I didn’t think I needed it, and oftentimes I don’t need it, but when you need it, there is really no other tool that’s going to work unless you come up with something crazy.  That is the time when the dent dial shines.  When you have that big open area and you have no leverage, all of a sudden the dent dial is the tool.  That’s the only one you can use, but you’ve got to open your mind to it.  So that is, if it wasn’t on your list, it’d be on mine as well, “Tools you didn’t know you needed until you need them,” is a dent dial for sure.  And it’s an acquired taste.  You’re not going to get it right out of the box and go, “Yep, this is exactly what I’m looking for,” you’re going to get it and go, “How do I use this thing?”  Then once you start monkeying with it a little, maybe one or two months in, you start to get a feel for what it’s capable of and you start to open your mind to the possibilities of the different setups.
So that is on my list if it wasn’t on yours.  So for me, also in no particular order, is sandpaper.
Shane Jacks:    Gasp.
Keith Consentino:    I know.  Sal, if you’re listening, you need some sandpaper.  Sal is famous for not sanding anything.  I think actually he sanded something last week, so he’s coming into the real world, but everybody says you are a big hacker if you sand everything up.  Okay fine.  If you want to spend twice as much time working some dents, knock yourself out.  But if you’re doing wholesale work or you just have something deep and nasty and you want to hustle it up and you leave a couple of little pits in it, you want to cut it flat, that’s part of what we do, man.  When I was with you, Shane, at that BMW assembly plant, we spent the entire time in what they call the intensive repair bay.  So we only saw cars that had paint or dent issues.  So we saw these guys sand and paint, sand and buff on thousands of cars.
Shane Jacks:    Literally the week we were there, thousands of cars.
Keith Consentino:    And these are brand new BMWs that are getting shipped out and put together as brand new BMWs, and they’re flattening those little spots, taking dirt nibs out.  So I saw them burn some cars too and I learned a little bit from those guys about where you can sand and where you can’t on those particular vehicles.  There were some parts of an X5, for example, and the back of the bottom lift gate, where there was almost no clearing.  You’d burn it if you just breathed on it.  So that was interesting.  But anyway, I learned from those guys that this is just part of the world.  There’s paint on the car and there’s enough you can sand some, and that’s it.
Shane Jacks:    And we’re going to learn some of that down in Orlando too.
Keith Consentino:    A lot of it.  It’s a huge deal.
Shane Jacks:    A lot of that.  And people think it’s just sanding.  You just put a piece of sandpaper on a block or on a stick.  That is not what it is.  There are some rules, and I mean these are solid rules that I’m going to teach you, when to sand, when not to, and how it’s going to – I mean, we’ll even leave the orange peel into these things.  Well how can you leave the orange peel?  Trust me, we’ll learn how to do it down there.
Keith Consentino:    So that’s on my list.
Shane Jacks:    Sandpaper is a number one tool for me.  Sandpaper compound.  It’s huge for me.
Keith Consentino:    You know where I use it almost every time is on a high fold line at the edge of a panel.  I started using a metal knockdown, because it’s a little more concentrated, but a lot of times those things are so rigid that you leave a couple of little marks in the clear, even if you pock it up a little bit, with that much pressure, and then I’ll just come back and kiss the top of it with some sandpaper and polish it and I’m done in a quarter of the time that it would be before.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah.
Keith Consentino:    All right, what’s your next tool?  Are you trying to stay on the cutting edge of paint less dent removal when it comes to your tools?  If so, you need to make sure you have two things in your arsenal.  One is Shane Jack’s Jackhammer Blending Hammer.  Find it at blendinghammerpdr.com.  If you want to learn blending, we’ve got an awesome tutorial to go along with the hammer right there on the site.  You’re going to love it, you’re going to learn something, and you’re going to get better and make money.  In addition to the hammer, if you are doing any glue pulling, you need to have the Black Plague Crease Tabs.  It’s a six-piece crease pulling set.  The two largest are absolute monsters.  They are going to pull out collision damage like nothing else you’ve got available, and the smaller sizes are going to be for the normal everyday kind of door edges and minor minor collision dents in a dog leg in a bottom of a door.  I’m telling you guys, it is going to change the way you do your repairs when you have the cutting edge tools, and these are two of them.  Blackplaguepdr.com, blendinghammerpdr.com, check out the sites, guys.  Bring yourselves into the 21st century.
Do not forget about Recon Pro, the software that we use to run our PDR companies.  The stuff is phenomenal.  You’re entering all the information on your device, which is an iPhone, you’re scanning a VIN with the camera on it. Everything is populated in there for you.  You buzz that little rascal off via magic off to a server somewhere.  It’s all living on a server.  You can dunk the phone in a bucket of water as soon as you’re done.  You don’t lose any data.  Everything is paperless.  The invoice is delivered electronically.  You can send duplicates at a moment’s notice.  Guys, get off paper.  Quit screwing around.  Automobiletechnolgoies.com, Recon Pro, get your business into the 21st century.
Shane Jacks:    My next tool is a fender edge tools, and Keith, there are a couple of different, when I say fender edge tool, you get an edge on a fender that’s been in, and there’s no double panel there.  A fender is always single panel, unless it’s a Chevrolet truck.  And that edge will fold in really easy and you’ve got to get that, you’ll be pushing all around above the edge, and you can’t quite get a tool to come back down into the edge, you need a fender edge tool.  Keith uses, what’s the one you use Keith?
Keith Consentino:    I use the one from Dent Gear called Devil Tip Flap R, and he’s got one called the mini that I don’t know if I can give him the credit for, but I asked him to make it and he made it.  It’s the same type of tip but with a – it’s tighter to the bar itself, so it makes a tighter little U-turn at the back.  So it fits kind of more of a tight fender, like a European fender, like a BMW, an older BMW, or a lowered car or something.  But either one works great for hooking up and pulling back down in that very bottom lip of the fender.  So you use a tool just a little bit different than the flat bar.  You use a round bar, a round tool, right?
Shane Jacks:    Correct.  It’s a tool from PDR Finesse, Keith, and I don’t have the number up.  That was kind of short-sighted of me.
Keith Consentino:    That’s okay.  When we put the show up on the site we’ll have a list up on pdrcollege.com of all these tools.  So if you want to snag them for yourself for just look at them more, there’ll be links up there.
Shane Jacks:    Cool.  So a fender edge tool.  I’ll use that.  It’s pretty sharp on the end.  So you’re not going to – you’re going to be bringing this up in tiny little bits, and it’s going to want to knot up on you just a bit.  But to get down in that corner, you’ve really got to have a sharp tip.  How sharp is the tip on the one you use, Keith?  I really don’t know.
Keith Consentino:    It’s very sharp.  It’s a semi-circle.
Shane Jacks:    Okay.
Keith Consentino:    It almost looks like the edge of a sword or something.
Shane Jacks:    Okay.  All right, got you.  So both are pretty sharp, and you have to have it sharp to get down, like I said a minute ago, really get down in that corner.
Keith Consentino:    I used to have a homemade one that I cried because I lost it, but it was made out of some different kind of spring steel or something that was just a nice, big, sharp, pointy hook. I think some guys have called it an eagle claw tool before.  I’ve never seen that, but some guys have used that name, and man I was sad when I lost that tool.  I have the devil tail to take it’s place.  But when you use a tool, especially an old homemade one, it makes you sad because you can’t get another one.  There’s always some voodoo with a homemade tool.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah, it wasn’t a homemade tool but it was a tool that I couldn’t get anymore.  I snapped one on a quarter pound.  This was a half inch tool and I was wrenching on this thing.  And I guess just from flexing thousands and thousands and thousands of times, this thing finally snapped.  Sad day.
Keith Consentino:    All right.  So my next tool is for guys how generally will drill holes, which is me.  I’m not above drilling a hole anytime.  To me, it’s a strategic decision.  I’m not doing it covertly.  I’m talking to everybody before I do it, and I say, “Hey, we can de-trim your trunk.  That’s another $150.00.  That’s the cleanest way to do it.  Or, if that doesn’t matter to you, we can drill a hole right here.  I don’t care.
Shane Jacks:    What percentage of the time do they say, “Okay?”
Keith Consentino:    60 to 75.
Shane Jacks:    I think it’s higher for me.  I’m a better salesman than you.
Keith Consentino:    It depends how you’re selling it, what you want to do.  If you’d rather drill a hole and get out, it’s easy to sell that.  So when you’re drilling a hole, there is a whale tail that fits in the half-inch hole made by Dent Craft, and like you, I was not prepared, I don’t have the model number now, but it will be on the website.  I’ll look it up.  But it’s a little tiny super thin whale tail that fits in the half inch hole.  That is a fantastic little tool.  And not just for going in holes.  A lot of times, I used it just the other day on a Tesla hood in the very front.  They have all these issues we’ve talked about before, and it is the tiniest, thinnest whale tail I have, and I was able to go right back up there.  It’s even thinner than that answer tool that we talk about.
Shane Jacks:    Right.  The great thing about those, the answer works in situations where it does because the flag is a lot longer, but on those half inch whale tails, they will flex so much because they’re narrower and thinner material than our standard whale tail.  And when it’s a really tight spot and you’ve got two braces and you’ve got to shove that tool in there, it’s so much more flexible.  Oftentimes you’re not going to put a snail trail that you normally would with a regular whale tail.  Those things are freaking awesome.
Keith Consentino:    That’s right.  It’s a really cool tool.  But again, you can go your whole career without it and be pretty sure you don’t need it.  But when you have it, you’ll realize, “I do need this.  This is awesome.”  What’s your next one?
Shane Jacks:    My next one would be a hail rod, and I know it sound crazy, the hail guys that are out there are going, “Well duh, yeah.”  You do need that from the very beginning.  Well, those things haven’t been out forever and we use these different size rods, different lengths of rods and different tips.  Now that these big, thick, one inch to one and a half inch round hail rods have come out, with interchangeable tips on two sides, you put two different tips on there, you can instead of grabbing the end of the tool and having to have different sizes of tools, you put that bad boy in there one time, and that shaft is so big in diameter, you just use it to push on and they don’t flex very much.  If you get a good one, they don’t flex, they’re strong, and you can reach the front of a freaking SUV from the back standing in the back of the car, which is huge.  Working back to front on hail on an SUV, start back to front, we’ve talked about this before, Keith, start back to front instead of side to side, you’re going to be done twice as quick, I promise.  So that’s my big one.  Some of you Cali boys out there that don’t ever get hail.
But then you have cars come in and you’ve got this sport utility, you’ve got a GMC Yukon that the roof is 14 feet long on it or whatever, and you’re working it side to side because you don’t have a tool long enough to get from the back of the hatch, when you take the hatch off to work it, and you don’t know why it’s taking you so long.  You’ve heard other guys getting through these things quicker, and it doesn’t look clean when you look at it from front to back, and it’s because you didn’t start front to back, it’s because you don’t have a hail rod.  So that is a big one for me.
Keith Consentino:    And you’re talking about the kind that break down into pieces?
Shane Jacks:    Yeah, break down bars.  I should have clarified there.
Keith Consentino:    And so can you just keep adding extensions to them?
Shane Jacks:    Yeah, you can make it as long as you freaking want.  Ultra, I love Ultra’s hail rod, the interchangeable rod that they have.  That thing is stiff.  Putting it together is kind of a little bit of a pain, but it’s not something you’re doing every day, and there’s another one out there now.  I haven’t tried it yet, so I’m not going to say who puts it out.  I want to get this thing.  It’s square, and it’s freaking 10 and a half feet long.
Keith Consentino:    Is that that new fiberglass one?
Shane Jacks:    No, it’s made out of square aluminum tubing.  And it’s relatively inexpensive.  I’m going to buy that thing and try it out.  Because there are times when that seven and a half feet, which is kind of the standard, anywhere between seven and eight feet is kind of standard for these break down hail rods.  Sometimes, like on a Yukon, working it from the back, I would like to have something a little longer.
Keith Consentino:    Is it true that if you get to those hail sites and there’s two guys and only one spot that you have to run and joust each other with your hail rods in the back alley?
Shane Jacks:    A battle of supremacy.
Keith Consentino:    First guy off their feet is out of there.  That’d be better than having it impale you.
Shane Jacks:    You do not have a hail rod, correct Keith?
Keith Consentino:    I do not, no.
Shane Jacks:    Invest.  I’m telling you.  I know you don’t get hail much, but it’s definitely worth it.  You know, they work great on bed-sides too, on like Dodge Rams.
Keith Consentino:    I can see that, and I don’t know if it’s my mojo or what, but I’ve done more hail in the last year and a half than I probably have done in my entire career.  I haven’t done anything different except know what I’m talking about, so when I get a hail job, somebody just says hail job and I know exactly what to do now, and before, probably like a lot of guys, I wasn’t really excited about doing them because I didn’t really understand how to bill for them, how to estimate them.  So I’m sure we’re going to end up talking about that a little bit at the seminar if not a lot bit.  Because the whole point of coming to an advanced skill seminar is to make more money, and you can make a lot more money by properly estimating a hail car.
Shane Jacks:    Tons, just knowing how to speak to an adjuster.
Keith Consentino:    So I’m sure we’re going to talk about that a little bit, because as good as we make your crease repairs, you’ll make more money pound for pound with a solid hail estimating plan than a good crease strategy.  I hate to say it, but it’s true, if you get hail.
Shane Jacks:    For sure, yeah.
Keith Consentino:    All right, so my next one is kind of like the whale tail.  We’re talking about a shaved tool, and we’ve mentioned these not she show before, and for Shane and I they are just a regular, everyday occurrence, and for our technicians, but it’s something else, again, that you could go years and years and work and work without shaved tools.  I did it, Shane did it, you just know what of your tools fit where and you think that’s it.  Then you drop a shaved tool in your hand and pop that thing right down into a brace that you’ve been fighting with every other tool to fit in there, and it slides right in and you think, “This is amazing.  I can’t believe I worked so long without these,” and they’re only getting thinner as the technology for the tool companies gets better.  So get some shaved tools.  It is ridiculous.  I couldn’t do what I do without them now.  Oftentimes when that tool is on the dent, that’s the only tool that’s going to fit in there.  You take that tool out of my hands, I can’t get it.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah, there’s a reason I nicknamed those bad boys The Answer.  That’s the reason.  You know where they work best?  And I think I’ve said this before.  Especially, well, where they work best for hail, if any of you guys ever have any trouble with the Infinity G cars, the hoods, they’re aluminum and they have a lot of flat skin to skin bracing or double panels, those things work so so well in those hoods.  Because aluminum, you can shove a tool without distortion way more than you can a steel hood, and I’ve been working on some of these infinity hoods, and my guys here have been cringing at the big bowls that I’m twisting, and it’s pulling down the sealer.  But those tools work so well in those hoods.  They work everywhere, but that’s just one of my favorite spots to use those shed tools.
Keith Consentino:    And you like one of the Ultra shaved tools too, right?  Is that you?
Shane Jacks:    That’s the ones that I like the best, honestly, the Ultras.
Keith Consentino:    And I use the Dent Craft shaved tools more.  I don’t have the Ultra shaved tool.
Shane Jacks:    Man, the Dent Craft are thinner, so you’re going to get them in a tighter spot, so they have their place.  The Ultras are a little bit thicker, insanely flexible, but way way strong.  These things are really really strong.
Keith Consentino:    And I know you like that coating, whether it’s chrome or whatever it is, because it slides in there.
Shane Jacks:    Yeah.  I’ve got the entire set and then an extra three or four that I keep in my truck when I do the little bit of mobile work that I do.
Keith Consentino:    You had an extra three or four until our seminar.
Shane Jacks:    Well, I guess I’ll have to buy some more while I’m down there.
Keith Consentino:    What’s your next tool after my shaved tools?
Shane Jacks:    Sticking with the hail theme from the last one, from the last tool that I said, the breakdown bar.  It’s a fathead light, or something comparable, and I’m just going to go ahead and say two of those to set up on a roof, because they’re so wide, you can set them up, you stand on the back of that SUV roof, and you don’t have to move that light near as much.  Your speed will, I used to work hail with one fluorescent bulb light.  Do you know how long it took me?  Holy crap.
Keith Consentino:    Yes I do, because it wasn’t that long ago I was doing the same thing.
Shane Jacks:    Horrible would be the best way to describe.  And I was doing it fine, and then once these LED lights came out, and then these wide series lights, and then I decided, you know what?  You may as well have a few of these lights, and I’m just sitting it up around, it looks like we’re doing a movie shoot in there it’s so bright, and there are lights everywhere, but I don’t have to move near as much.  So I’m going to say that’s my next one, is the fathead light.
Keith Consentino:    And you said something similar, but Pro PDR Solutions is the only one that makes a big fat light like that, right?
Shane Jacks:    Are they the only one snow?
Keith Consentino:    Well I don’t.  I don’t spend much time on the hail side, but Bill’s company is Pro PDR Solutions, and his product is the one that’s called a fathead.
Shane Jacks:    That’s the only one that I will use.  And I think it may be the only one.  But Bill, if you’re listening, or anybody, I won’t use another one because, that’s why I don’t know if there’s another one out there.  This one is really good.  I haven’t looked.  I thought there was another one but I could be wrong, Keith.
Keith Consentino:    So one of the reasons I think you’re talking about it’s better is it’s twice or more as wide as a normal two or three strip LED light.  So when you set it up, you have more options closer to the panel and higher up.  So it’s like moving your light from the lower position to a higher position, but it’s just the whole light is up there and up and down already.
Shane Jacks:    You can turkey neck that bad boy.  That dent up there, this dent down here.  That dent up there, this dent down here.
Keith Consentino:    Did you just make that term up?
Shane Jacks:    I’ve heard it.  I’ve heard it somewhere before, but not in relation to this.
Keith Consentino:    All right, one of the other techniques we’re going to teach in Orlando, Florida is turkey necking.
Shane Jacks:    Oh that’s big.  That is actually, yeah.  That is actually one of my key things for speed on hail is the whole turkey neck thing.  It really is.  I swear it is.
Keith Consentino:    I believe you.  That’s the whole point of using that light.  I never heard it called that, but I like it more now.  So this next one for me is going to seem kind of self-serving, but it’s true.  It’s the reason I created these products, is because I want to make my job better, easier, and I want to make more money, and that’s how I came up with the Black Plague crease tabs, so that’s one of my tools is crease tabs, mine specifically, because there are no other crease tabs that have that type of pull over those spans.  There’s other comparable crease tabs that are small, but none that are three and four and six inches.  So that is one of my tools.  If you took it away from me now, I would have to invent something else, because there’s nothing else that does what I need those tools to do.  But I went for a long time without glue pulling any creases.  I went for a long time without glue pulling period, and then I glue pulled for five years before I had anything for creases, besides the little baby tabs that everybody has.
Shane Jacks:    I can’t second this enough.  I mean, we’ve already talked about it some, but yeah, these things are the truth.
Keith Consentino:    And I know a lot of you think Shane and I are just in cahoots and in bed together on all these tools because we’re always telling each other how great they are, but the thing you’ve got to know about Shane, and we’ve talked about this before, but one of the reasons that I get along with him so well is because the guy tells me the truth no matter what.  He tells me if my haircut sucks, he tells me if my idea sucks.  That’s what I love about him.  And I don’t always love to hear it, but I know that when he tells me something, it’s sincere.  There’s no money changing hands on glue tabs or any of our tools, for that matter, but he wouldn’t tell you he loved them if he didn’t love them.  He’d say nothing or say, “They’re alright,” or something.
Shane Jacks:    Exactly.  If they really sucked out loud Keith, because you and I are friends, I would say, “Yeah, they work okay, ish,” but that would kind of be it.
Keith Consentino:    But it’s just because we’ve been open for so many years now to learning new stuff and new techniques that we’re open to trying new tools and when they work, they work amazingly.  They don’t always work.  We’ve talked about several ideas back and forth that turned out to be garbage.  So the ones that you end up hearing about on a podcast are the ones that made it through the selection process, made it through prototype, made it through production, and that’s why they’re good.  We spent a lot of time pushing through this.  The hammer that everybody uses, that wasn’t Shane’s first hammer.  It’s the one that made it through the selection process and the one that everybody else loved, so that’s why everybody’s talking about how great it is, because it is.  And I’ll give you a little pro tip for glue pulling.  I was just talking about no other tab would do what these tabs do, my new tabs coming out are different shapes and sizes.  I designed them to bridge the gap between a Black Plague tab, which pulls a pretty sharp crease, and a normal tab that pulls this off your area.
And that’s what they do.  However, there’s something that we don’t talk about very often, and that’s modifying your tools.  We don’t really recommend that a lot, but it’s something that we do, at least some of us more often than others, but we all do it to some degree, and glue tabs are one of the things that you can spend a lot of time monkeying around with.  And you don’t want to take a good design and try to reinvent it, but my new tabs are one piece like a traditional plastic tab, and the crease tabs are pretty wide.  You can take those things and grind them down as thin as you want.  If you’ve got a specific dent that’s worth modifying a couple dollar piece of plastic, you can grind these things down, and they’ll pull a much sharper crease.  So you can really hit that sweet spot in between a Black Plague tab and a tab that’s almost an inch wide.  If that’s too thick and the other is too thin, take these things to a bench grinder, grind them down, and they pull amazing.  I’ve got a couple I’ve done it with mine, because I get a pretty good deal on them, but it’s not taboo, man.  It’s a piece of plastic.  If you want to modify it for that particular dent, it’s a good idea.  Do it.  There’s nothing wrong with that.
Shane Jacks:    It’s a couple of freaking dollars.
Keith Consentino:    And I promise after you modify it and it works, it’s going to be your new favorite tab.  You’re going to find places to stick it all over the place.  It’s kind of fun to do.  So when you guys end up buying them, if you buy a couple and grind them up, I think you’re going to have fun with it if you’ve got the time.  But one of the first guys to really promote that hard to me was Sal Contraris.  He’s like, “Man, stop looking at these things like you can’t mess with them.  You’ve got to customize them for every dent.”  And that’s Sal.  He wants a custom everything for everything.  He forges his new swords and he – I’m like, “What are you doing over there?  It’s not that complicated,” but he loves it.  So he was the first one to open my eyes to modifying tabs with a purpose.
Shane Jacks:    When you’re making $1,000.00 per dime-sized dent, you have time to do that.
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, he’s making molds of the actual dents and custom tabs.  All right, so what’s your last one on your list of five there?
Shane Jacks:    My last one is information.  Sounds stupid.
Keith Consentino:    No it doesn’t.  It sounds like a podcast.
Shane Jacks:    You know what I’m talking about Keith?  There you go.  It sounds like a podcast.  What else?  What other avenues of information are there out there?
Keith Consentino:    Smoke signals.
Shane Jacks:    We’ve got Door Ding, we’ve got Facebook, there are all kinds of venues out there.
Keith Consentino:    Some are more reliable than others.
Shane Jacks:    But just like the podcast, Keith, how many emails, messages, or even posts on Facebook have said, “I had my best day ever because I did this, what Keith said, I did this, and man this happened.  I had my best month ever.”  If you don’t want to make more money, don’t use the information that’s out there.  Fine by me.  It’s more for the rest of us to make.  But it’s amazing to me, guys, are so “concerned” about our industry, yet they won’t do anything to make themselves better, and get into the information sources that are out there and listen to what guys are telling you and apply it.  So information.  That’s my last one, Keith. It’s a biggie.
Keith Consentino:    It’s a huge one.  I haven’t been on it, but John Highly and Mike Toledo have a huge resource that they’re always going over at dentrainer.com.  And like I said, I haven’t been on it personally, but I have known those guys for a lot of years, and I know the quality material that they put out as far as video, so I’m sure it’s top notch.  I couldn’t vouch for it personally, but I’m sure they wouldn’t put something out there that’s junk.  So if you want to ask questions without anybody knowing you’re raising your hand, that’s probably a good way to do it.  But doording.com is where Shane and I met.  There’s a lot of great resources on there.  It’s been a little more quiet in the last year or so than it has in the past, which is kind of sad, but I think everybody’s getting sucked in 1,000 different digital directions and nobody’s in one place anymore.
Shane Jacks:    There’s still a ton of good information on there.  You have to sort through it.  It takes a while to get what you want, but so much good information on there.
Keith Consentino:    Yeah, and there’s a lot of stuff going on on Facebook too, and a lot of it is garbage, but there are some people there who know what they’re doing and who like to share.  So if you’re on Facebook a lot and you want to learn more, what I would suggest is spend more time working on your personal connections with some of these guys that you see as either talented technicians or thoughtful guys, and try to develop a relationship with them outside of just posting in the public groups, and you’re going to find somebody that’s going to help bring you along rather than posting some questions and getting flamed by a bunch of retards.  So my last item on the things you didn’t know you needed until you needed them, sales closes.  Different ways for closing a sale.  If you didn’t know you need them, you didn’t think you need them, until you’re right there with a fella and you can’t quite get him to commit even though you know he wants to, you know you’re going to do a good job on the dents, you know he’s going to like it when it’s done, but you can’t get him to say yes.
You’ve got to close it.  So I’m going to share a little story that happened to me just the other day.  I’ve got a new guy I’m working with who’s basically with me for advanced training.  He’s been working for a long time and just missing the Jedi mentor and I’m taking that place, and we’re talking about closing on retail deals.  So we were on one.  So this is a little two or three-year-old CRV.  The guy had called me for his wife’s care, and he said, “There’s about one, maybe three dents the size of a quarter or smaller,” and I said, “Of course I can’t commit to any prices over the phone, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we could do all three of them for $225.00 or in that range.”  And I know that sounds cheaper than you think I normally am, but if they really are under a quarter, that’s a pretty quick repair on a CRV.  So I figure I’m in and out of there 30, 45 minutes, hour at worst, $225.00, I’m cool with that.  Well, when I got there, husband wasn’t there but the wife was.  It’s her car.  So we looked together, and we find four dents.  Two dimes, a quarter, and a nickel about.
So I said, “You know what?  I told your husband our average is about $150.00 for a normal door ding, but I can give you a great break.  If we’re doing all four of them, I can do this entire side of the car for $300.00.”  She said, “Sounds great.  Let’s do it.”  So by the time we got set up and go the first tool on the first dent on the fender, he had come home, talked to his wife, and come back out, and he was polite, but he said, “You know, we had talked about $225.00 and now you’re at $300.00.  I’m just thinking maybe we could do, I don’t know if I really want to spend that much.”  He’s like, “That’s more than what we talked about.”  I said, “I understand.  It is more.  We talked about $225.00 for three dents, but we happened to find, your wife showed me four, so we’re doing four of them for $300.00.”  And he said, “Well,” keep in mind, remember the figures.  $225.00 and $300.00.
He goes, “Well, will you meet me in the middle at $250.00?”  And I laughed and I said, “Greg, that’s not the middle.”  And I just kind of laughed and we talked about that uncomfortable silence, I just let that simmer for a second, and he’s squeezing his chin, he’s like, “Well, yeah, I just, I don’t want to spend that much.”  I said, “Hey, I totally understand Greg.  Some of these are not that noticeable.  Which one of these four should we leave on the car?  We’ll just do the three for $225.00 like we talked about.”  So this close is called the takeaway close, and what you’re doing is instead of negotiating the money, you’re taking something out of the deal, you’re taking it away from them.  They’re going to lose it now.  And this is really really powerful because their sense, everyone’s desire for gain is less intense than their fear of loss.  They don’t want to lose things more than they want to gain things.  That’s true of everybody.  So you’ve got to tap into that a little bit.
And the fear of loss close is how you do it.  So you take that thing away.  And so I said, “Which one of them do you want to leave in there?”  I’m even kind of pushing him.  I said, “You know, some of these are not that noticeable.  You could probably live with this one.”   And he goes, “Oh.  Well, I don’t – I don’t really want to leave any of them.”  I said, “Well we could do any three, just like I told you, and just have the one left and then the car’s still pretty nice, it just has the one dent.” So he’s quiet.  Now there’s, like, a minute and a half of no talking.  It’s just silence.  And I’m standing face to face with him, and I’ve got to be comfortable with that silence.  Because once you’ve set the price and he’s quiet, the first one to break that silence is the one who’s going to lose that negotiation.  The first one who comes out is going to get countered and that’s where you’re going to end up.  So you just wait and wait and wait.
And it is not easy to do if you’re not used to it.  In fact, I had a friend of mine tell me, he was at a sales training seminar, and one of the things they have you do is get on your knees, but you know, you’re upright from your knees on the floor, and your partner, that you don’t know, is doing the same thing, and you are 10 inches from each other.  And you’ve got to stare each other in the eyes for two or three minutes, and nobody can laugh and nobody can smile.  If you laugh and smile, you start over.  So he said the purpose of that exercise was to get comfortable with that silence and with that making a relationship with a stranger in a close proximity and in a very quick amount of time.  So you’ve got to be comfortable with that silence, and I was.  My guy, who was the trainee, he was not, because it’s not a normal thing, but he was working on one of the dents and he just kind of kept his head in the dent.
So finally he said, “You know, let’s just do all four of them.  I want to get it done, and if she’s happy then I’m happy,” and that’s it.  I don’t bring it back up after that and say, “Well are you sure?”  I said, “Okay, fantastic, and I’m also going to fix these little wavy spots up here that you didn’t even see, but it’d make me happy to make the car perfect.”  That’s it.  Done deal.  Fear of loss closed, and we’re back at $300.00 where I wanted to be.  So keep that in mind, that’s an awesome close, but there’s more and more and more of those closes than I could ever teach you.  There’s thousands of them.  But you only need to really perfect maybe three or five of them and you’re going to close a lot more deals than you were before.  So that’s something you didn’t know you needed until you needed it.  You weren’t able to close a deal and now you are.  Sales closes.
Shane Jacks:    A minute and a half?
Keith Consentino:    It was long dude.
Shane Jacks:    I will go ahead and tell you, I am not the salesman Keith is.  I would have broken after about 20 seconds.
Keith Consentino:    Well let me tell you why you wouldn’t have.  Because once you know what you’re doing, what this transaction is, it’s a contest.  And I know you’re as competitive as I am.  So the contest is who’s going to break.  It’s like a staring contest.  But you smile and stand around and kind of –
Shane Jacks:    Does this work with wives, spouses?
Keith Consentino:    You know what?  I don’t know if it does or doesn’t.
Shane Jacks:    You’re too scared to do it aren’t you?
Keith Consentino:    Well I’m thinking about it.  Well, the takeaway close definitely works.  I’ll tell you one of –
Shane Jacks:    You’re not getting money this week?
Keith Consentino:    My wife uses the takeaway close on me.  You know what I mean.
Shane Jacks:    The takeaway close going that way is really effective really quickly.  I mean it is extremely powerful.  Half the money and all the –
Keith Consentino:    Here’s a technique to get you out of doing some laundry.  Pick your wife’s favorite shirt and shrink the heck out of it.  I am not allowed to do laundry at my house anymore.  Cost me $90.00 for a lifetime of immunity.
Shane Jacks:    Smart man.  Very smart man.
Keith Consentino:    All right, so those are the tools that we recommend you get familiar with.  So those are a lot of links.  I’m going to have to work hard putting those all on the website but I’ll have them all up there with some resources for you, so if you want to get these tools or at least get familiar with them so you can get them in the future, we’ll have links at pdrcollege.com.  We’ve waited until the end of the show to remind you, but be reminded about our inner circle networking program.  We are currently building the backbone for that, so we’ll have a place and a way to communicate with everyone and we’re making sure that is going to be easy and effective for everybody, when we continue to get excited to see these applications roll in from you guys all over the world.  Really excited to meet you guys and get something going together and share all this kind of stuff that Shane and I are talking about on the podcast.
We’re going to get even deeper with all this stuff in person.  We’re going to share revenue numbers.  Everything is on the table if you’re in this inner circle, because that’s how everybody can grow with real and honest information.  So I’m really excited about that, and we’re excited to meet you guys.  So if you’re interested in that, hop on there on pdrcollege.com for the inner circle and enter your information and then shortly here you’ll get an email with details on how to officially apply to it and eventually join.  So don’t forget about that if you’re interested.  January 13, 14 is the expo.  That’s also going to be on pdrcollege.com.  To register for the seminar, go there.  If you’re just waiting on information, just make sure you’re on our email list that says, “Receive alerts for new podcasts.”  You got anything else at the end here Shane?
Keith Consentino:    I believe you covered it, Keith.
Shane Jacks:    Okay fellas.  Thanks for hanging out with us for an hour.  Go out there and kill it this week and check in with us again next week.  As always, we enjoy all of your comments.  If you want to put them on anyplace, our Facebook page, our PDR College site, and especially if you want to leave us an iTunes review, man, we would love it, and we’ll read it on the show.  Until next time fellas.
Keith Consentino:    Get better.

[End of Audio]

Duration: 71 minutes